Is it okay to learn (Torah) During Davening?

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  • #1803346

    Joeshmo
    Participant

    Sometimes during Chazaras Hashatz it gets really boring. Should I be learning instead? What if I’m a fast davener, should I learn and wait for the Chazan to catch up and learn in the mean time?
    Just in general, is learning allowed during davening?

    #1803361

    kako
    Participant

    There is a time for learning and there is a time for davening. Learning during Chazaras Hashatz is a no-no as you should be paying attention to answer amen. However, if you finished your Shmone Ezre and the Shatz hasn’t started Chazaras Hashatz, then you could learn. I am not sure, if you can actually pronounce the words with your lips (as opposed to just looking into a Sefer) but in any case, make sure you do it quietly so you don’t disturb those who are still davening.

    #1803362

    Yussel
    Participant

    You are supposed to listen to chazaras hashatz and answer amein.

    #1803364

    1
    Participant

    During chazaras hashatz you shouldn’t I have crazy chazaras hasatz ADD; I know the struggle. But you can learn in between when you are done and when the chazzan starts chazaras hashatz. Plus, you can miss an Amen, if you don’t pay attention.

    #1803353

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    No, the problem is that others will follow your lead and also learn and there will not be ten people answering.

    #1803355

    The Frumguy
    Participant

    The Mishna Berura says openly that it is not allowed to learn during Chazoras Hashatz.
    In addition, what kind of Kavanah can someone have if his mind is split between Davening and learning?

    #1803356

    cherrybim
    Participant

    No, not permitted.

    #1803395

    Joseph
    Participant

    Or during leining. Other than between aliyos.

    #1803406

    Little Froggie
    Participant

    Any other ideas or ways to show disrespect and impatience with HaShem???

    Wannan learn? Do it at YOUR expense, while you’re eating, hwhile you’re working, while you’re shmoozing… There’s no greater disrespect towards HaShem than coming in to HIS house and DISREGARDING HIM. Anyone who does this instantly looses my respect toward him. המחלל את השם גופו מחוללת על הבריות.

    Yeah, I know, today when you come in to a Shul to daven, there are these “news stands” where you can pick any of the many “news” bletelach. Torah of course. “150 THINGS TO DO INSTEAD OF DAVENING” Truly disgusting.

    #1803405

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Obviously, it depends WHEN during the davening (aka chazara ha’shatz versus the bar mitzvah boy’s thanking all the mishpacha and rebbeeim ) and WHAT he is learning (aka something appropriate for the time).

    #1803426

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Joseph, There is a difference between leining and tefila. Tefila is a chiyuv on each individual whereas leining is a chiyuv on the tzibur (except for megilla). Therefore, if ten people listen to leining , you can learn quietly, but not at tefila.

    #1803431

    Joseph
    Participant

    Reb Eliezer shlita: There a stira between your last two posts. First you wrote that the problem of learning during davening is that others might copy you and then there will be less than ten people answering the shatz, so you cannot learn during davening.

    In your second comment you wrote that ten people need to listen to the leining, so it’s okay to learn during leining (I assume you’re only mattir that during leining if the minyan has more than ten people AND at least ten people aren’t learning during leining). Aside from that being contradictory comparatively (in that only in one you’re worried about there being less than ten), you also then changed the reason why you said not to learn during davening (to it being an individual chiyuv).

    #1803544

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Joseph, See SA O’CH 124,4 and 146,2

    #1803542

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Chiyuv on the tzibur is to make sure ten people listen to the leining but I don’t have to worry that people will learn from me as long they are listening now. By tefila, I have an individual chiyuv, so if ten people llisten, I could learn, if not that others will follow my lead. By leining, I don’t have a responsibility to worry about the future.

    #1806293

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    I will sometimes learn something after I finish Shmoneh Esrei, but I close the sefer as soon as Chazaras HaShatz begins.

    The Wolf

    #1806353

    Takes2-2tango
    Participant

    dish613Participant

    Sometimes during Chazaras Hashatz it gets really boring. Should I be learning instead? What if I’m a fast davener, should I learn and wait for the Chazan to catch up and learn in the mean time?
    ——————————————-
    Learning or shmusing during davening. Is no better then playing candy crush on your cell phone,even a kosher one!

    #1806347

    Takes2-2tango
    Participant

    Is it ok to learn while your rosh yeshiva is giving a shmuess or shiur?

    #1806399

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    If you look into another sefer when he is speaking is disrespectful as you are showing that you don’t care what he is saying.

    #1808306

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Is it ok to learn while your rosh yeshiva is giving a shmuess or shiur?

    When I was in school, the RY gave a shiur in Yiddish once a month. The shiur lasted between an hour and a quarter and an hour and a half. This was the only Yiddish used in the Yeshiva at all.

    I didn’t understand a word of Yiddish. Being forced to sit there for that long as a kid with literally nothing to do was, to me at the time, torture.

    One day, after the shiur, he said to me “I’ll give you $20 if you can tell me over what the shiur was about.” He *knew* I didn’t understand Yiddish. I’ve never ever (that I can remember) wanted to punch someone in the face in my life, but his comment drove me about as close as I ever came to that.

    I just walked away.

    The Wolf

    #1808309

    Yaapchik
    Participant

    How about learning instead of using your smartphone. Leave the time which is dedicated to Avodas Hashem uninterrupted. Bored? Learn how to concentrate on tefilah. It’s the healthier choice.

    #1808335

    Little Froggie
    Participant

    EXACTLY!!!!! And that is exactly the reason why it’s so disrespectful towards HaSHem!!!

    Should the honor of people be greater than HaShem’s?

    and btw, in my Shul, when one of these “holy masmidim” (oh, don’t worry, only during davening) get up to speak, I make it my business to occupy myself with a sefer, book, news-clipping, or spec of dust. In the eyes of others he may be respected, not by me. You don’t have time for HaShem, your losing your patience in His service – I have no need for you too. <read above post>

    #1808345

    Git Meshige
    Participant

    Totally not permitted. There is a reason why Chazal was mesaken chazoras hashatz. If they wanted people to learn during davening, there would be a seder limud in middle of davening. There is a time and place for everyting. Davening is set aside for prayer and introspection. When the chazan repeats the shemoney esray, listen with kavna and answer amain., Anyone that learns during chazoras hashatz is a fool.

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