January 19, 2010 3:48 am at 3:48 am #673133
A melamed may learn most from his talmidim, but I will be willing to conjecture that the Gemarah in Taanis was not referring to whether or not a certain bochur should be admitted to Yeshivah, but rather to hashkafa and ways of looking at an inyan in Torah. What the principal is doing is out and out Loshon Hara, encouraging the same in the boys to whom he is speaking, and shows him to be singularly unprofessional and not competent to do the job for which he was hired.
BTW, I’d feel differently if the bochur is accepted into the school and then starts to act out after that or has some problems. Then, it would be very proper for the mechanchim to speak to the boys’ friends to see if they are aware of why the boy might be having a problem. Of course, they should talk directly to the boy and his family first. But in this case, the boys might know something that is currently going on in the boy’s life, of which the menahel is unaware. But to ask them to speak about some 8th grader who is not even in the school yet… UH UH!January 19, 2010 9:28 pm at 9:28 pm #673134
aries: you are still missing the point. Noone is promoting the principal asking ADVICE from the students and he is not walking into the classroom announcing “who knows Ploni?” A better mashal would be if the directer of the board’s brother-in-law was neighbors with a candidate for principal it would be extremely reasonable to ask his impression. If you want to really know about the midos of a prospective shidduch, ask his roommates not his Rebbi.January 19, 2010 11:21 pm at 11:21 pm #673135aries2756Participant
But when you are talking about jobs or shiduchim you are talking about grown-ups, not kids who were barely just bar-mitzvah!January 19, 2010 11:31 pm at 11:31 pm #673136HIEParticipant
Feel free to discuss the issues, but NOT how you feel about other postersJanuary 20, 2010 1:27 am at 1:27 am #673137
These are neither board member’s bro-in-laws NOR A SHIDDUCH, so that mashal makes no sense and certainly has nothing to do with the issue at hand. I would never ask a 14 year old to tell me about the middos of a 22 year old (for shidduch purposes). The view of a teen is often highly biased, easily influenced by superfluous and shallow things (like their peer group), and notoriously quickly subject to change.
There is simply NO EXCUSE WHATSOEVER for an adult professional in a position of extreme authority, to seek counsel with a teen, in this instance. If he were to ask his talmidim what musician or singer is now considered popular among his teen peers, THAT would be shayach, but not something as crucial as whether or not a bachur should be accepted to school.January 20, 2010 4:32 am at 4:32 am #673138
aries: YOU were the one who drew the parallel to asking parents about a principal!January 20, 2010 4:37 am at 4:37 am #673139
oomis:”to seek counsel with a teen”
How many times do I need to repeat, we are not talking about “seeking counsel”!!!
Also, they are similar to the Principal’s neighbor that they know the person personally rather than professionally, and matching appropriate students to schools IS very similar to a shidduch.January 20, 2010 5:18 am at 5:18 am #673140
A) what exactly do YOU call it when an adult seeks the advice of a teenager?
B) Who cares HOW well they THINK they know the young person in question? That is completely irrelevant. How do you think the child being asked for his opinion would feel, were he to know someone was talking behind his back to someone who had power over his future, with the potential for it being extremely unhelpful to him? Better yet, how do you think his PARENTS would feel about it?
I would speculate as to your own age, given your position in this issue, but the truth is, a responsible person of any age would see that at best, this is a very poor example of chinuch, and the principal is showing himself to be singularly lacking in good judgment. I would even venture to say that were any child not accepted in a Yeshivah because of something some kid blabbed about him, I would think that the parent would take the school to a Din Torah, were they to find that out (and given how immature kids talk way too much, it would definitely get out at some point).January 20, 2010 5:51 pm at 5:51 pm #673141aries2756Participant
To Kollelboy and HIE
And with that, I am finished arguing with either one of you
Feel free to discuss the issues, but NOT how you feel about other posters
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