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I was popping popcorn in a fleishig pot. I have not used the pot in several months, however, it has been sitting full of oil that was used to fry fleishigs the whole time. Before use, I wiped it pretty much dry.
One of the popcorn kernels flew out past the aluminum foil I had covering it, and bounced against my cold empty pareve pot sitting across the stove.
Is my pareve pot still pareve?
Ben yomo? Well, if the oil is fleishig, then it is still there. But, can kavush ever be ben yomo? I forget how that works. I think it can be ben yomo, just can’t make the issur through kavush because won’t be ben yomo.
Suppose yes ben yomo–still the popcorn is a nat bar nat, and one should imagine really a nat bar nat bar nat, since the oil itself was not fleishig–it had beliyos from the stuff I fried in it (I fried kibbeh which is balls of dough with chopped meat inside).
The popcorn is a davar gush, which shows up in hilchos shabbos a lot, but only really in that one shach about the food on the telier. Otherwise, we’d call this an irui kli rishon, which mavliah k’dei klipah.
Tasaa gavar? No, it hit the side. What is the halacha on that? What is gavar?
What happens next time I heat up the pareve pot? There is no chanan issue to be mefaapeah inside.
Is my pot still pareve?
Did you clean the pot out with hot water? If yes, the hot water could make the pot a Ben Yomo (cause the dirty stuff can ‘cook’ with the hot water).
Just throwing out a thought.
SiDi™
The popcorn probably was cold by the time it your other pot
also the oil probably dried before 24 hours
& why wouldn’t the oil be genuinely fleishig?
I’d assume wipe off the spot (not that there is one- but it’ll make you feel better) and your good to go
(besides even if it is fleishig- it would be eino ben yomo so the nat bar nat in it wont be a problem)
You left a pot half full of oil for several months??
SIDI: I didn’t clean it at all. Why would I?
One word: Yuck.
SiDi™
Why are you making popcorn in a pot. Isn’t that why God created microwaves?
PBA: Tasa’a Gavar means the thing that isn’t moving, not direct top or bottom. I think that’s a Rashba.
Also, I believe there are those who say L’ma’aseh that for there to be any Havla’ah the contact has to last long enough to heat up the Tasa’ah for Yad Soledes Bo.
If you were frying Kibbeh, then you may have an issue with ‘Tataah Gavar’, not with ‘Tasaah Gavar’!
Nat bar nat might not apply here – as the popcorn could have some of the actual oil on it and this oil touched the parve pot. But, it probably wasn’t hot enough anymore and also it would be botul – considering the amount of the oil to the size of the pot.
Botul b’shishim?…(this is why we have a Rov to ask such kashas).
Just to clarify- are you assuming that there was more than shishim of the original oil remaining in the pot combined with the new oil?
In 105-3 there appears to be a machlokes shach & taz if we’re machmir when not hefsed meruba to say when side by side & the issur is hot that assurs kulo or just klipa
PBA: Whoa whoa whoa. Months-old Mamashus is without question Nosein Taam Lifgam.
why wouldn’t the popcorn help?
You don’t ask a halachic question in a group forum like this. Call your rav.
Just to be clear, you are worried about Mamashus in the oil on the popcorn directly touching the pot? Or you’re worried about the oil (which itself is only meat via Nosein Ta’am) making the pot meat, which would be a Nosein Ta’am Bar Nosein Ta’am? Meaning anything cooked in the pot is totally fine because it’s a Nosein Ta’am Bar Nosein Ta’am Bar Nosein Ta’am?
Yentac, are you kidding? Or you mean that literally?
Call your rav, you say!?
Each and every one of these esteemed CR posters IS a Rav.
In fact, one of them might just be YOUR Rav.
The one you call to find out if your pot is pareve…
How long after it happened did you post?
PBA: If the latter, there is no issue. If you want to be Machmir boil up a pot of water (you don’t have to wait Ben Yomo) to be M’vatel the NA”T BAR NA”T D’heteira.
If the former, then there is no way there is enough Mamashus of hot meat on a popcorn kernel to affect your pot. If you want to be Machmir you can do a Hagala after Ben Yomo but there’s no way that that’s not Lifgam and… ew.
PBA: Ah, I see your point. I apologize for ever being Choshesh you to act Shelo K’din. I’ll restate my post.
If the latter, there is no issue.
If the former, then there is no way there is enough Mamashus of hot meat on a popcorn kernel to affect your pot and there’s no way that that’s not Lifgam and… ew.
well kavush needs 24 hr. and then its nosen taam lifgam so at first glance it should be ok.
but wait a second —then how do ou ever have a problem with kavush ? it should always be nosen taam lifgam.
so until we resolve that we cant use my heter.
wow- there are so many talmidie chachomim in the cr.
but your are all so capable of learning -SO WHY DO YOU WASTE SO MUCH TIME IN THE CR?
I see the same posters ans bloggers day in and dy out- RACHAMAN LITZLAN
POPPA BAR ABBA = I THINK T WAS THE CRASI UPLACI WHO DISCUSSES IT
poppa_bar_abba- it’s actually very poshut. When the popcorn was touching the oil, it was still a kernell. When it popped and flew out of the pot, it turned inside out so that the part that hit the pot never touched the oil at all!
By the way, I really don’t think we say Tata’i Gavar on a pot. We find in the Sugya of Korban Pesach that what touches the walls cooks itself.
Gamanit – how CLEVER!!!!!!!!
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