June 19, 2009 4:21 pm at 4:21 pm #589934
He never showed a birth certificate. All he has shown is a certificate of live birth. As a matter of fact he spent 100K against lawsuits trying to force him to show one.June 19, 2009 4:30 pm at 4:30 pm #651654
Its a fact. Nothing to discuss there. Any time it was brought up, the media shoved it under the carpet. That’s the only way he got to where he is today. The media loved him and didn’t want to support anything that would make him lose the election.June 19, 2009 4:32 pm at 4:32 pm #651655
He’s really a martian, trying to sell us out to the galactic empire? 🙂June 19, 2009 4:37 pm at 4:37 pm #651656
Seems that this has been disproven. No need to resort to conspiracy theories and false facts; Obama will not last more than one term as he will stumble on his own.
There are just times when everything seems to be going wrong in the world, and then the greatest yeshuas follow. I remember Carter YMS, and I also remember how the beginning of the end of the Soviet Union began under Reagan. This time, it may well be Iran and then the Arab dictatorships that fall apart one by one. Obama will not be much of a help to anti-mullah movements in Iran, but his successor may well be.June 19, 2009 4:44 pm at 4:44 pm #651657tzippiMember
Let’s say it’s proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that he’s not. And he may or may not have been complicit of hiding it. Then what?June 19, 2009 4:50 pm at 4:50 pm #651658
Forgive me for being silly here, but isn’t a “certificate of live birth” a birth certificate??
The WolfJune 19, 2009 5:11 pm at 5:11 pm #651659
You know, I *know* I’m going to regret getting involved in this…
1. Yes, it a real birth certificate. A number of states title their birth certificates a “certificate of live birth.” It’s the same thing. So, yes, he was born in Hawaii in 1961 and that makes him a full-fledged U.S. citizen.
2. Want additional proof? Both of Honolulu’s major newspapers printed birth announcements of Barack Obama’s birth in 1961.
Lastly (and most importantly) every judge to whom the issue was brought has ruled that Obama is a US Citizen based on his birth certificate.
For heaven’s sake — by all means, if you don’t like Obama’s policies, then take him to task on them. But just give up on the birth certicate issue — it makes you look stupid.
The WolfJune 19, 2009 5:23 pm at 5:23 pm #651660
So why’d he (and the media) make a whole issue when it was brought to court? Couldn’t he have just forged one?June 19, 2009 5:31 pm at 5:31 pm #651661Mayan_DvashParticipant
But doesn’t it seem peculiar that instead of showing his real birth certificate he chooses to spend $1M to fight it in court?
;June 19, 2009 5:47 pm at 5:47 pm #651662anon for thisParticipant
I just read about another American who believes President Obama is not a US citizen: John Von Brunn. He’s indisposed right now, but maybe if his health improves, he’d like to discuss his views with you.June 19, 2009 5:50 pm at 5:50 pm #651663kapustaParticipant
Its a fact. Nothing to discuss there. Any time it was brought up, the media shoved it under the carpet. That’s the only way he got to where he is today. The media loved him and didn’t want to support anything that would make him lose the election.
not the media… gezeirah for it to happen this way. We are the only ones who can change that.June 19, 2009 5:59 pm at 5:59 pm #651664
Can anyone provide a credible source for an amount of money that Obama spent on this? The OP says 100K, Mayan says 1M, other sources on the internet (bloggers, etc.) have different amounts.
In other words show me that he spent that much.
On second thought, don’t bother, because it’s immaterial. The birth certificate is still real, he was still born in Hawaii in 1961, and therefore he’s still a citizen — regardless of whether he spent 5 cents or 30 billion dollars.
The WolfJune 19, 2009 6:27 pm at 6:27 pm #651665anon for thisParticipant
Sorry, I got the first name of the patriot above wrong: of course it’s James Von Brunn, not John.June 21, 2009 3:59 pm at 3:59 pm #651667
not the media… gezeirah for it to happen this way. We are the only ones who can change that.
Exactly, kapusta! Hashems presence is becoming increasingly obvious. It only makes sense that He put the idea into the media’s heads because anyone with the least bit of common sense would have realized that he is not fit to ‘rule’ America.June 21, 2009 8:30 pm at 8:30 pm #651668kapustaParticipant
mepal, I heard from one of the people who teach current events in my school, the only way its possible to teach it is to make it into a hashkafa class, and talk about how clear Yad Hashem is now.June 22, 2009 12:14 am at 12:14 am #651669
Yup! I’m getting so freaked out with the way ‘current events’ are unfolding in front of our very eyes.June 22, 2009 12:48 am at 12:48 am #651670veyatzivMember
Nobody is saying he is not an american citizen. Some of my kids are completely american, have authentic american “certificates of live birth”, but they were born in Jerusalem. Legally, one must be american born to be elligible for president.June 22, 2009 1:49 pm at 1:49 pm #651671June 22, 2009 2:36 pm at 2:36 pm #651672
I find it very hard to believe that you can get an official Certificate of Live Birth (short form) for Hawaii that lists the town and island of birth as “Honolulu” and “Oahu” respectively for any child not born in that town and island.
Can you document someone who *did* receive an official Certificate of Live Birth that says that they were born in Hawaii when they, in fact, were not?
The WolfJune 24, 2009 2:02 pm at 2:02 pm #651673jewishfeminist02Member
Why are we even still discussing this? There are so many valid complaints against Obama; I don’t understand why people keep dragging up this old, silly one.June 24, 2009 2:16 pm at 2:16 pm #651674
Beacuse “He’s really a martian, trying to sell us out to the galactic empire? :-)”
Perhaps Obama is Haman in disguise?
Welcome back JfemJune 24, 2009 2:46 pm at 2:46 pm #651675
Haman in disguise is not Obama. The new Haman is not disguised at all. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is clearly a direct descendant of Amalek via the Haman line. And note that as he gets closer to his nuclear dreams (which I still think are bogus Baghdad Bob nonsense), his own people are rebelling.
And if Obama thinks he will get away with anything which is against Hashem’s will, he can think again. The rising oil price at present is just another illustration of Who runs the world and Who will make sure that after allowing Obama in to show the US what a mess such a misleader can make, will make sure he is over and done with in 2012 as Jimmy Carter was after one term.June 24, 2009 4:45 pm at 4:45 pm #651677
Lev Melachim V’sarim B’yad Hashem. If we deserve it via our Teshuva & Tefila, he can be the best for the yidden.
well said Kilo.
(the comment regarding Haman was in the same vein as the first. I could have said Stalin just as easily, but Obama is part socialist:)June 24, 2009 5:04 pm at 5:04 pm #651678
my own feeling
a man with a muslim name with virtually no experience (very strong reasons that one could not possibly become president of the united states) arose out of nowhere to become the most powerful man in the world. reminiscent of haman, a lowly barber, and htlr (he should burn in gihennom forever)a lowly paper hanger who both came from nowhere to become the most powerful men in the world
i have a feeling he is destined to play a large role in HaKodeshBarachu’s plan.June 24, 2009 5:25 pm at 5:25 pm #651679
note: in my last post (if im allowed to post this), i gave a 3rd reason why it was highly unlikely he could be elected, it was edited out.June 24, 2009 5:40 pm at 5:40 pm #651681cherrybimParticipant
Feivel- “i have a feeling he is destined to play a large role in HaKodeshBarachu’s plan.”
Feivel, that goes for every world leader, all the time.June 24, 2009 5:49 pm at 5:49 pm #651682SJSinNYCMember
Cherrybim, but his rapid rise from anonimty points to something more than the usual. (Or rather, that we can actually percieve it)June 24, 2009 5:52 pm at 5:52 pm #651683
cherry, sometimes it’s more apparent than other times.June 24, 2009 6:00 pm at 6:00 pm #651684
of course cherry of course
thats why i placed “large” in bold
i sense something very very big here….
maybe notJune 24, 2009 11:11 pm at 11:11 pm #651685
When you think about it, the last Hamanite president, Jimmy Carter, also played a very large role in Hashem’s plan – and as will be the case with Obama, that role was negative and he was trounced out in disgrace.June 28, 2009 12:21 am at 12:21 am #651688dveykus613Participant
If anyone follows the purim story (or even better read rav brevda’s english pamphlet/books on the “real” raid behind the purim story) – it seems to me that Ahmadinedijad is haman who outright wants to see every one of us destroyed, and obama is Achashveirosh who was a commoner who suddenly got into power and seemed “impartial” but when reading between the lines we see he was really evil as well and liked haman’s ideas and gave him his signet. Obama is also surrounded with (sometimes brainless) advisors as was Achashveirosh.
They also say with megillas Esther that everywhere it says “HaMelech” it is really referring to Hashem, who was hidden behind the scenes (and therefore it doesn’t say His Name once explicitly) but it’s very clear He is pulling all the puppet strings – with the seemingly nonsensical commoners coming to power (both Haman and Achashveirosh) and then the total hashgocha of Esther and Mordechai getting an “in” to the government, Mordechai overhearing bigsan and seresh so Achashveirosh would be indebted to him (and didn’t want to be BTW and kept trying to flip the page but a malach kept turning it back to the page about Mordechai), etc etc. everything was perfectly orchestrated.
So the point is, as kapusta said, if we’re zocheh, and we are chozer b’teshuva with eachother and to Hashem, then be”H the puppet strings will be pulled to our good – with all world leaders and all world events. But chas v’shalom, if not….well let’s just say that Barack “HUSSEIN” Obama does not bode well for us, and the default “teva” looks pretty bleak for us…
At the same time we shouldn’t despair, and the Chofetz Chaim said we cannot change the world, we can only change ourselves, which he did himself, and he ended up actually changing the world. So let’s do our best to get to work on ourselves….June 28, 2009 3:53 pm at 3:53 pm #651689
1) Moussavi’s middle name is also Hussein (Hossein).
2) Moussavi means “of Moshe”! In the Arab world, its cognate Moussawi (as in terrorist Zecarias Moussaoui YMS who uses the French transliteration) means a Jew, a follower of Moses, and indicates a Jewish convert to Islam L”A, forced or otherwise! I do not know if this is the same in Farsi or if it just means a descendant of someone called Moussa (Moshe), a name which may be used by Muslims as well and is used by Persian dialect speaking Muslims in places like Chechnya and Daghestan. Anyone have any information about this? My info on Mussawi in Arabic comes from an Arabic speaking Iraqi Jew; I don’t have any ‘Persian’ contacts I can get in touch with now.June 29, 2009 12:58 am at 12:58 am #651690bein_hasdorimParticipant
I agree with your point that was reiterated by
however I have another theory that answers both questions,
perhaps he really was born in the U.S. but wanted to keep the muslim
world from hating him, by confiming he’s american born,
for political & other reasons.
So he paid whatever amount (the guy is loaded anyhow)
(having Hussein as a middle name doesn’t hurt either)
So he could play both sides.
Just a theory! food for thought.July 2, 2009 11:51 pm at 11:51 pm #651691dveykus613Participant
forget the birth certificate but I still say he’s “Achashveirosh” – from what I understand he hadn’t even been in any politics until a few years ago…July 17, 2009 3:38 pm at 3:38 pm #651693
Now do you get what I am talking aboult. Even Lou Dobbd is on to the Obama Scam.July 17, 2009 4:39 pm at 4:39 pm #651694cherrybimParticipant
“If anyone follows the purim story (or even better read rav brevda’s english pamphlet/books on the “real” raid behind the purim story)”
Or even better, listen to Rav Brevda’s tapes on Purim on Aish.com.July 17, 2009 8:38 pm at 8:38 pm #651695
It doesn’t matter. It’s still a non-issue. The Certificate of Live Birth from Hawaii, which has been proven to be authentic, and which states that he was born in the state, is legal enough.
Why he won’t release it is a non-issue.
The WolfJuly 20, 2009 6:00 pm at 6:00 pm #651696GoldieLoxxMember
i cant believe anyone with half a brain would still be tring to prove he caant be presedent
cmonJuly 23, 2009 3:22 pm at 3:22 pm #651697
The announcements of Barack Obama’s birth printed by two Hawaii newspapers in 1961 do not provide solid proof of a birth in the Aloha State because of uncertainties over the policies and procedures that apparently were being used at the time.
The Honolulu Star-Bulletin, for example, according to its website, now reprints birth information it receives from Hawaii’s Department of Health.
“We don’t have an editor who handles birth and marriage announcements; we print what we receive from the Department of Health Vital Statistics System,” a Star-Bulletin newsroom operator explained.July 23, 2009 3:34 pm at 3:34 pm #651698squeakParticipant
It’s way too late to still be talking about this. Personally, I also suspect something is not right. And the fact that there is a “witness” who “remembers” his birth is suspicious in and of itself.July 23, 2009 3:56 pm at 3:56 pm #651699
So what? No one suggested that the newspaper clippings were proof in and of themselves… they are merely supporting evidence.
In any event, the Certificate of Live Birth is still valid proof that he was born in Hawaii. You have stated (without any proof to back it up) that one can obtain a Cert. of Live Birth from Hawaii for non-native born children, but even if that’s true, I doubt you can get one that says that you were born in Hawaii unless you actually were.
The WolfJuly 23, 2009 4:20 pm at 4:20 pm #651700The WolfMember
I’m surprised you are even dignifying this nonsense.
The Other WolfJuly 23, 2009 5:08 pm at 5:08 pm #651701
Wow some people are bored.
Wolf the thirdJuly 23, 2009 5:19 pm at 5:19 pm #651702purplegirlMember
i dont see y it really mattersJuly 24, 2009 4:21 pm at 4:21 pm #651703
California Rep. John Campbell co-sponsored a bill (with at least nine others) requiring presidential candidates to submit a birth certificate, a wink and a nod action that he maintains is somehow not related to the birthers’ claims. When MSNBC’s Chris Matthews asked Campbell if he believed Mr. Obama is a natural born citizen, Campbell hedged, saying, “As far as I know, yes, OK?” He told Matthews, “it doesn`t matter whether I have doubts or not.”July 24, 2009 6:48 pm at 6:48 pm #651704
My guess is that the bill isn’t going anywhere.
But, in any event, even if it is adpoted, so what? You’re always free to change the standards going forward. You want to require an actual birth certificate for future presidents? Fine. You want to require that they dress in bee costumes and open every campaign speech with “Buzz buzz buzz…” that’s fine too. But it doesn’t change anything as far as what happened in the past. Obama met the legal requirements for the office and that’s that.
The WolfJuly 24, 2009 6:54 pm at 6:54 pm #651705oomisParticipant
The importance of this is akin to the importance of everything being in order on a kesubah, or the marriage is not valid. The law of this land is that our Presidents must be natural-born USA citizens. Naturalized citizens are not eligible. Personally, I think that is wrong, but it is the law. None of our first Presidents was a natural born citizen, They all came from England. Having said that. If obama was born anywhere else besides the USA, and his parents were not American Citizens, then he was not legally eligible to run for President, which is very nogeya to us. If it was illegal for him to run, then he was also elected illegally, and this should be undone ASAP if found to be true. I don’t care if you like him or not (I personally do not). He could be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but he is answerable to the same laws that we are, and if he was ineligible or is found to have lied about his birthplace, then we need to follow the law. Then we can always amend the law to include non-born-in-the USA citizens, and the idealistic among us can re-elect him lawfully, if they still want to, after what he has done to this country in only a few short months.July 24, 2009 7:04 pm at 7:04 pm #651706oomisParticipant
Obama met the legal requirements for the office and that’s that.
If that is true, then there is nothing to be done, he was legally elected. But if not…July 24, 2009 7:08 pm at 7:08 pm #651707yossi z.Member
finally someone who spelled things out!!July 24, 2009 9:21 pm at 9:21 pm #651708Josh31Participant
“The importance of this is akin to the importance of everything being in order on a kesubah, or the marriage is not valid.”
The YWN moderator is sleeping on the job and should not allow posts like this to pass before verifying with an expert in this area of Halacha.
I do not have any Rabbinic ordination, but
Based upon my best understanding:
An invalid kesubah does not invalidate the marriage itself. A new kesubah is required immediately. Many, if not most or all of the monetary obligations are still binding on the husband even if no Kesubah is written.
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