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I want to get green lips.
It’s like getting a tattoo.
It’s like getting a tattoo.
Is it? I’m not certain that it is.
In a tattoo, ink gets injected through the dermal layers. With permanent makeup*, it is applied on the outside of the skin. It may not actually qualify as a tattoo for halachic purposes.
In many ways, it may be similar to eating fake crab meat, which (assuming it is otherwise kosher) is certainly permitted.**
The Wolf
* I don’t actually know this to be fact. If I’m wrong, then obviously you should disregard what I said above.
** I’m not addressing any hashkafic concerns (i.e. is it proper to do so even if technically permitted?). Those are separate questions.
PBA,
Thanks. As I said above, I was just assuming based on regular makeup. I don’t actually know what’s involved.
The Wolf
I know for a fact that several women have had permanent eyeliner or eyebrows tatooed on, and in each case they asked shailas and were told it was halachically permissible, because it is NOT under the umbrella of k’soves kaaka, which was done in ancient times by Ovdei Avoda Zara as part of their rituals of A”Z.
The women who have permanent eyebrow makeup are primarily doing it for the purpose of replacing something that they are missing due to chemotherapy or skin conditions that destroyed the follicles. Others have permanent eyeliner or lipstick and sometimes flesh colors tatooed over an unsightly birthmark, which sounds very painful to me for them to do, but if they have a heter, who am I to judge?
Popa
Just eat a green ices. So much simpler and more enjoyable.
“I want to get green lips”
Cannot see anything halachicly wrong worth that. My Rabbi has blue tooth!
I don’t think the reason of the Issur has anything to do with it. The Torah doesn’t say not to do it for Avoda Zara. It says not to do it. Even if we understand some reason for a Mitzva we can’t Pasken from that.
I do think it is Muttar since it is coloring, not writing.
And once again, the thread follows PBA’s predestined line of thought.
torah613613torah: And once again, the thread follows PBA’s predestined line of thought.
This is not really so surprising. PBA is everyone and everyone is PBA. We don’t exist except as extensions of PBA’s will. So naturally when PBA starts a topic it will follow the the way PBA wants. Because that is our will.
Resistance is futile.
Why don’t you go ahead and get green lips?
PBA: This was a more blatant example of the theme.
Green lips. Is that like a red herring?
Is it muttar to get a full-size tattoo of your face tattooed onto your face, in the same colours as your face?
oomis1105 -“I know for a fact that several women have had permanent eyeliner or eyebrows tatooed on, and in each case they asked shailas and were told it was halachically permissible, because it is NOT under the umbrella of k’soves kaaka, which was done in ancient times by Ovdei Avoda Zara as part of their rituals of A”Z.
The women who have permanent eyebrow makeup are primarily doing it for the purpose of replacing something that they are missing due to chemotherapy or skin conditions that destroyed the follicles. Others have permanent eyeliner or lipstick and sometimes flesh colors tatooed over an unsightly birthmark, which sounds very painful to me for them to do, but if they have a heter, who am I to judge?”
You bring two Heterim in your post:
1. It’s not K’soves Kaaka.
2. They need it due to a disfigurement.
If the #2 doesn’t apply, ie. they are doing it for beauty, even though there still is #1 – I hold it’s Ossur.
Why? Because it’s a waste of money -Baal Tashchis.
A man wearing permanent lipstick permanently transgresses ?? ???? ??? ??? ????.
ASSUR!!
uneeq – but no women wear green lipstick.
A simple Google search suggest that there are women that do. And there are stores as well that sell green lipstick, which presumably is for women that use it. Additionally, lipstick is a woman-only product, it’s assur even if most women don’t wear it.
Would you be able to wear a pink skirt if most women think it’s out of style?
I hold it’s Ossur.”
Unless you are also a Rov in addition to being in the health field, B”H what you hold does not have any impact on the women I was thinking about. Do you also object to women spending thousands of dollars over the course of time, to buy NON-permanent makeup?
(wait, you probably do)
The issue was brought up striclty from the halachic view. Maybe Chassidim should not spend a fortune on fur shtreimlech. Maybe no one should pay a fortune to someone to find a shidduch for them. Maybe none of us should ever pay to eat out in a restaurant (surely you can cook at home!). And definitely no one should ever pay to go on a vacation of any type.
The cost is not the inyan, the halacha of tatooing is. And int he cases I mentioned, the women were permitted to do so.
OOmis -“The cost is not the inyan, the halacha of tatooing is.”
Sorry to inform you – wasting money Is against the Torah/Halacha whether you admit it or not.
“Unless you are also a Rov in addition to being in the health field, B”H what you hold does not have any impact on the women I was thinking about.”
So are You a Rov/Rabbanit that posts here?
No, you probably are just s/o expressing her opinion. That is what the CR is all about – expressing opinions – I was expressing mine.
“Do you also object to women spending thousands of dollars over the course of time, to buy NON-permanent makeup?
(wait, you probably do)”
If that’s what normal women do -then No. If a woman exceeds the normal spending on makeup -then Yes.
“The issue was brought up striclty from the halachic view. Maybe Chassidim should not spend a fortune on fur shtreimlech.”
It’s for a Mitzva.
“Maybe no one should pay a fortune to someone to find a shidduch for them.”
Again, it’s for a Mitzva.
“Maybe none of us should ever pay to eat out in a restaurant (surely you can cook at home!). And definitely no one should ever pay to go on a vacation of any type.”
Acc. to the Torah you’re allowed to have a break – so you can do these things. If you’re the type that does these things in excess -then No you shouldn’t be doing them.
Kavod habriot is docheh an issur de rabbanan.
The Teshuvos Shraga haMeir (R’ Feivel Schneebalg) allows cosmetic tattooing in a case of kavod habriot, such as where there is scarring, yeneh machla, etc.
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