June 17, 2018 3:47 pm at 3:47 pm #1540763
1. Girls are being raised to believe that their role in life is to be a wife and mother.
2. According to halacha, women are not obligated to get married.
3. Some claim that the excess of marriageable women is contributing to the Shidduch Crisis, since some men are inundated with so many potential matches that bochurim end up delaying marriage, or c”s end up not getting married.
4. What if having less women on the Shidduch market would narrow the dating pool, and make space for more compatible matches early on, where bochurim are more motivated to act while they have the opportunity?
Thank youJune 17, 2018 7:24 pm at 7:24 pm #1541158
If you accept #1 as being correct (it is), the rest becomes moot.June 17, 2018 7:51 pm at 7:51 pm #1541172
#1 IS a fact.June 17, 2018 10:41 pm at 10:41 pm #1541233
There are basically an equal amount of boys and girls born. (Very slightly more girls). Therefore whenever a guy gets married so does a girl. For every girl who decides not to get married there will be a boy not married.June 17, 2018 10:42 pm at 10:42 pm #1541221
Sorry guys, but the Torah view is that women are intended to be wives and mothers – and anything else they want. Men are intended to be husbands and fathers and Torah learners, as well as whatever else.
The major driver of the shidduch crisis is simply numbers – more girls than boys on the market at any one time. HOWEVER it doesn’t help that girls are not just admonished to be wives and mothers, they can only marry a guy who’s a lamdan and will sit in kollel until he’s gray. I once tried to red a shidduch for a working guy and the reaction was almost as if I had been advocating for a street sweeper. We have a set formula for what a girl should want, not just a set formula for what the girl should be. If she doesn’t want to spend years as a full-time working mother supporting the family, she doesn’t dare admit it. And if she “settles” for a working guy, she has to worry that her younger sisters may have problems.
I was once in the precincts of one of Brooklyn’s premier local colleges when I noticed a young man in yeshivish dress. He noticed me looking at him, and we got to talking. He felt he had to justify being in college (this was twenty years ago) and told me, “I’m here so that when I get married I can make enough money so that my wife can stay home with the children.” I told him “Yashir koach.”June 18, 2018 9:01 am at 9:01 am #1541344
Unfortunately, I’ve heard similar such arguments as the OP and it’s really terrible. Basically what it boils down to is “we should just teach girls to be OK with never getting married.”
The human emotion of loneliness has nothing to do with upbringing. These girls didn’t do anything to deserve never getting married.June 18, 2018 9:01 am at 9:01 am #1541349
Midwest2, the Torah view isn’t that they can be whatever they want.June 18, 2018 9:02 am at 9:02 am #1541350
I think there’s a stigma against working bochrim, Which must be changed. There are plenty of working bochrim who learn everyday and have great middos, but girls won’t look at them because they’re not learning full time.
On the other hand there are plenty of boys who are not cut out for learning full time, but they are scared to go to work because of “shidduchm”. So they stay in yeshiva/kollel (the coffee room……) for a bunch of years doing nothing .
If girls, parents and shadchanim will only recognize that not everyone is cut out for learning full time. And there are many boys who are working who learn everyday and have great middos. There will be a lot more boys available. And a lot more shidduchm.June 18, 2018 9:26 am at 9:26 am #1541422
It’s funny, the working bochurim claim that even though they’re kovea itim, daven with a minyan, don’t watch movies, etc., they don’t get redt shidduchim.
Meanwhile, the girls looking for working boys whio are kovea itim, daven with a minyan, don’t watch movies, etc., claim they can’t find any.
🤔June 18, 2018 1:15 pm at 1:15 pm #1541624
The problem is that everybody is afraid of what other people will say if they “settle” for a working boy. It’s assumed that there must be something “wrong” with the girl, so people will talk, wonder “what’s wrong with the family,” etc. Also, they may worry that it will harm the younger girls’ shidduchim.
The real problem in all this is the parents and their need to keep up appearances. Supposedly the parents do the selecting because the young people themselves aren’t mature enough to choose wisely. Looking over the current scene, I think in many cases the parents are less mature than the kids.June 18, 2018 6:41 pm at 6:41 pm #1541827
I have been reading about the so-called Shidduch crisis for years. All the theories about why the Shidduch crisis exists are nonsense. But more important, no one has cited any statistics to confirm that frum Jews are not getting married.
If there is a Shidduch crisis, why is the frum population growing?June 18, 2018 6:59 pm at 6:59 pm #1541857
If there is a Shidduch crisis, why is the frum population growing?
Because the people who are getting married are having lots of kids.
BTW, from where did you get your statistics that the frum population is growing?June 18, 2018 8:53 pm at 8:53 pm #1541867
“If there is a Shidduch crisis, why is the frum population growing?”
The shidduch crisis exists BECAUSE the frum population is growing. How do people still not get this?June 18, 2018 8:57 pm at 8:57 pm #1541877
The shidduch crisis exists BECAUSE the frum population is growing. How do people still not get this?
That depends how you define the shidduch crisis.
If you define it as not enough shidduchim taking place for the population to increase, then he’s got a good proof.June 18, 2018 9:02 pm at 9:02 pm #1541880June 19, 2018 12:25 am at 12:25 am #1541907
lightbrite-“1. Girls are being raised to believe that their role in life is to be a wife and mother. ”
– really? I thought nowadays girls are raised to believe they can be and do whatever they want in life and most importantly, INDEPENDENT! Youre probably referring to the Torah way Beis Yakov girls who are still left.
Feminism and equality have always been around but never this strong and have already done much damage in changing the way people think.June 19, 2018 12:30 am at 12:30 am #1541897
The phrase “working boy” is itself offensive. Throughout our history, men have taken responsibility to live a balanced life that allows them to support their families while engaging in limudei kodesh. It was only the rare exception who was such an outstanding learner that he was encouraged to shteig 24×7 and his wife and their respective families would support them. Today, we have normalized the notion that virtually all bochurim should learn full time with their wives having to earn some money for their parnassah as well as raise increasingly large families. The opportunity to find a “working boy” shidduch who will care for you and your children should be the ideal, not something you “settle for” . To the extent a young woman expects to support her husband while he learns full time, she should take a few years to acquire education and job skills so she can earn a professional salary while working part-time and not have to spend most of her day at minimum wage jobs while she also has children at home who need her attention.June 19, 2018 8:41 am at 8:41 am #1541919
Neville ChaimBerlin: Thank you for your reply. I am really glad that you offered another perspective because I never heard my argument/question before, and you’re right. I am basically saying that maybe not all women deserve to be in a relationship. It also wouldn’t be fair to prevent some women, who might be hesitant about their wants, from exploring Shidduchim.
Much appreciatedJune 19, 2018 8:41 am at 8:41 am #1542037
training girls not to get married?
the unfortunate results of that is that they could become “frei” rapidly.
it is easier for an older boy to remain frum. he can either stay in yeshiva longer, or even in working, he goes to minyan 3x daily, has night chavrusas, shiurim, whatever.
but for an older girl the opportunities are sadly limitedJune 19, 2018 8:42 am at 8:42 am #1542137
joseph et al ,
Ideal 1: women should be wives and mothers
Ideal 2: women are taught in seminary to
marry and support a full time learner.
Ideal. 3: accomplish both simultaneously without
hiring a nanny or stressing out mentally
and physicallyJune 19, 2018 9:27 am at 9:27 am #1542036
One of the problems is that our heads are bashomayim not rooted in day to day olam haze reality. What do I mean by this? An increasing number of apparently normal looking girls are suffering from serious mental health issues that are simply brushed under the carpoet in order to let them find their bashert. What am I talking about: anorexia, bulimia, BPD, post-traumatic stress, to name just a few. These are serious, and I stress the word serious, psychiatric issues. Many of these girls have spent months in inpatient closed psychiatric units. They then present as quite normal except for a small issue that is “well under control”, which is true until the next attack which may come in a day, a month, a year or after they become pregnant, if they can forge that close a relationship with a man. The more astute boys and or their parents find out what the background is and sensibly run a mile. Living with someone who has anorexia or BPD is very very difficult and these are conditions that are extremely difficult to cure. Marriage is just nor for them. They have extreme difficulty in forming and sustaining relationships and most BPD marriages end in divorce. I know my daughter is a sufferer. She is part of the shidduch crisis adding another name to the list of older girls looking for a shidduch. The truth is she is not marriageable. That is an olam haze reality. We still daven daily for a solution from shomayim.
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