Is Respect Dead?

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  • #592590

    WIY
    Member

    I just read an article on YWN about somebody throwing a book at President Obama. What is wrong with people today that they have no respect for a President of the USA? It was bad enough that an Iraqi journalist threw a shoe at former President Bush on Iraqi soil but a US citizen to throw something at the President on US soil is just beyond the pale. I don’t like Obama, I don’t agree with many of his policies, but I have respect for him as a person and as President of the USA. I can’t understand how people have such chutzpah these days!

    #699863

    squeak
    Participant

    Throwing a shoe at someone’s face is considered the biggest insult in Islam, as we were constantly reminded.

    A book, not so much. So it’s somewhere between shoes and flowers. Maybe it was meant as a gift?

    #699864

    Where were the secret service agents?

    I agree with you. THere is a serious lack of respect.

    #699865

    MichelleNY
    Member

    I hear, it is a serious problem today. Although I don’t really care as far as this specific occurrence goes (sorry). Not that I in any way condone such behavior, I think it’s juvenile and inappropriate, but I can’t say it’s on my top 10 things to worry about.

    #699866

    yaff80
    Participant

    Well, as a melamed I wish to bring this subject closer to home.

    What about the lack of derech eretz shown to rebbes, teachers, parents or any adult for that matter, shown by the kids of this generation?

    Does anyone have any ideas how we can face this “chutspa yasge”?

    #699867

    Ofcourse
    Member

    yaff80, I sometimes wonder if the declining Derech Eretz is correlated with the now popular “hands off” parenting approach, where parents are encouraged to have a friend-like relationship with their children. I think in homes where parents are less tolerant (but not abusive), where consequences are clearly understood, children are more respectful.

    #699868

    WIY
    Member

    yaff80

    I don’t have the answer but what I have noticed is that a lot of parents spoil their children and treat them like kings. Parents also try too hard to act like friends which just makes the kids lose respect. Kids need to be taught repect from the cradle. I have seen plenty of 2-3 year old monsters because the parents never laid down the law. I have seen 2-3 year olds that literally run their parents lives and tell them what to do (and they listen) its depressing to watch.

    #699869

    Chosson
    Member

    Wellinformedyid,

    I think you have a point in general that the respect level of today is not what it used to be, but regarding respect for this President, he doesn’t have respect for himself why should we have respect for him.

    Check out this link:

    http://www.therundown.tv/headlines/discuss-this/barack-obama-poses-shirtless-for-washtington-or-did-he/

    #699870

    WIY
    Member

    Chosson

    If you will read the article of the link you posted you will see that

    1. He wasn’t president at that time

    2. He didn’t pose

    3. He was vacationing in Hawaii

    So the photo is meaningless.

    #699871

    unfortunately this lack of respect has leaked its way into our frum community. A huge lack of respect for parents, rabbeim, teachers, principles… even a basic respect for each other, simply because one is a fellow yid. it’s the same shoresh as your example with president obama.

    #699872

    arc
    Participant

    it was meant as a gift.

    people today have no respect.

    #699873

    bein_hasdorim
    Participant

    It’s a sign of the times, moshiach is otw!

    But it is not dead, just more rare to find.

    #699874

    Midwest2
    Participant

    There is another factor here – everybody listens to talk radio these days, and from what I hear most talk radio consists of the host insulting other people – politicians they don’t like, celebrities they don’t like, the “government,” whoever their personal choice of “bad guy” is, and of course the poor people who actually call in and disagree with the host.

    The level of old-fashioned civility on radio is in the negative numbers, and so many of us listen to talk radio because it’s not television – so it must be OK, right?

    I’m not so young, and I remember when one mark of a frum yid was eidelkeit, and kids were taught that only the ignorant were offensive. Looking back, I can see that the change started about the same time that talk radio became popular. We’re always being told about how what we hear influences us, so why are we listening to the type of talk that my parents would never have tolerated?

    #699875

    smile66
    Member

    I don’t remember who it was, and someone correct me if i got the details wrong, but there were two rebbeim from either the late 1800’s or the early 1900’s walked into a room once and walked right passed two young men who did not only not stand up for them, they barely even acknowledged their presence. One of the rebbeim said to the other – this is really the worst level that respect could sink to – the young don’t even stand up for the elderly anymore. The other rav replied – No, this isn’t the furthest it could drop to – the furthest is when the young people are going to demand that the elderly stand for them!

    Even though i’ve never actually seen this happen, but conceptually that is what our generation is about. The young rule, the old are nebach cases to be tolerated.

    #699876

    oomis
    Participant

    When parents started to be pals with their kids, rather than parents, because they wanted their kids to like them, they lost respect. We are seeing the results of that now. I also believe strongly that allowing our children to be raised by nannies and housekeepers rather than by their mothers, is also a factor.

    #699877

    Dave Hirsch
    Participant

    smile66, The story happened with Reb Akiva Eiger and the Chavos Da’as. They were walking past a bench in a park where two youngsters were sitting. Appalled by the fact that they didn’t stand up, the Chavos Da’as said to Reb Akiva Eiger, this is what the Mishne says: Chutzpa Yasge. Reb Akiva Eiger replied, I think you got it wrong. Chutzpa Yasge will be when scholars will be sitting and the youngsters will express outrage on the fact that they stayed seated…

    #699878

    Ofcourse
    Member

    Wouldnt it be nice if Yeshivos/Seminaries/Chasan teachers/Kallah teachers would tackle the subject of parenting, at least to some degree?

    After more than a decade of what are considered the best schools for males and females in our community, I came out clueless about parenting and so did my spouse! Major mistake on part of our schools! Parenting could have been discussed all those umpteen years with just slightly less of other subjects, with definite gains in skillful parenting. When you seek help for a problem, it’s already too late, in most cases.

    #699879

    WIY
    Member

    Ofcourse

    Yes I agree, but then again most of the Rabbeim I had have no clue about parenting and id probably do the opposite of anything they said. One has to be a true mechanech and knowledgeable in parenting to give such adviced which is why for the most part it isn’t taught.

    #699880

    Ofcourse
    Member

    WIY, true, thats a distinct possibility, but easily remedied, by bringing in talented and inspiring experts in the field on a regular basis. And totally worth it!

    The old attitude of Psychology = Apikorsus is no more, and should have never been. The Skverer Rebbe, etc. advises people to go to psychologists, etc. regularly when problems arise. Preparation for parenting should have begun much earlier and is clearly lacking in our school system.

    #699881

    shimmel
    Member

    Too much democracy in this country… that’s all it brought! Children being able to call the police on their parents, Being able to write or say whatever you want!

    On a side note I dont think that people should be able to bashmutz a president so publicly being on air or through the press.

    #699882

    WIY
    Member

    Ofcourse

    Bringing expert people in on a regular basis costs money and is very complicated schedule-wise because its important for all age groups above a certain age but each grade needs to hear something else, the older ones need to hear different things than the younger ones. So one big assembly x amount of times a year won’t work.

    I’m not sure this can be made a reality.

    #699883

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Too much democracy in this country… that’s all it brought! Children being able to call the police on their parents, Being able to write or say whatever you want!

    Neither of the examples you mention have anything to do with democracy.

    The Wolf

    #699884

    squeak
    Participant

    WIY-

    It does not have to be expensive to bring in experts. B”H the frum community has many talented individuals comprising a broad range of expertise. Often, all the school needs to do is to ask, and a professional will happily volunteer his or her time to the students.

    One example is career day. 20-30 years ago, individuals like myself were asked by schools to come in and talk about our respective fields, professions, or businesses (only some actually had any affiliation with the school). Not a one thought of asking a fee. It’s called giving back, and it’s more in vogue now than ever.

    The reason this is not happening today is only because the schools have stopped asking. They no longer want to bring professionals and businessmen into the classroom for fear that they may be looked to as role models rather than merely a necessary evil.

    #699885

    Ofcourse
    Member

    WellInformedYid, experts can come in on a volunteer basis now and then. Volunteer speakers come to high schools and speak on other topics, so why not this (finding the balance between too strict and too permissive and negotiating/coparenting skills)? Also, the topic can at least be addressed in High School senior year and Seminary/ Bais Medrash.

    Bigger challenges have been overcome than the difficulties you describe. If they are, there would definitely be gain to all. If they’re not, at what cost later on?

    #699886

    WIY
    Member

    Ofcourse

    I hear you, its doable if the schools deem it necessary and important. The thing is, schools should also teach about the purpose of marriage. there was a thread here recently on the purpose of marriage and most people (including many marrieds) didn’t really know the answer. There is just so much essential education that is being omitted from our schools. It seems like the people with the best ideas are rarely in a position to change things.

    #699887

    Ofcourse
    Member

    WIY, which is why after dealing with very many frum, good respectful, well rounded YU/Sterns people, I sometimes say if I had it to do over, I might have sent my kids the YU/Sterns route. Jaws drop.

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