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February 27, 2015 1:38 am at 1:38 am #614986richashuParticipant
Now that its legal in DC…..
I know its not a frum thing to do, but is it assur? What is the difference between smoking marijuana and getting drunk or smoking a cigarette, in terms of halacha? What are the tzdadim?
February 27, 2015 2:57 am at 2:57 am #1062007β DaasYochid βParticipantRav Moshe was mattir smoking but assered marijuana.
February 27, 2015 3:06 am at 3:06 am #1062008JosephParticipantDY: Was that due to dina d’malchusa? If so, the dina in the malchusa may have changed.
February 27, 2015 3:14 am at 3:14 am #1062009zahavasdadParticipantMarajana might be less dangerous than Ciggarettes or Alchohol.
However there is the Dinah D’Malchus Dinah issue. For most states and countries of the world
February 27, 2015 3:16 am at 3:16 am #1062010TheGoqParticipantthe OU is looking to give a hechsher to products made with marijuana for medicinal purposes.
February 27, 2015 3:24 am at 3:24 am #1062011zahavasdadParticipantI dont think Medical Marjauna would need a chechser, I think the OU is looking to give chechser on Brownies and cupcakes made with Marijuana
February 27, 2015 3:29 am at 3:29 am #1062012147ParticipantEvery puff of a cigarette without a single exception is a failure of compliance with a Chiyuv Min haToroh of “vNishmartem Meod leNafshoseichem”.
February 27, 2015 2:06 pm at 2:06 pm #1062013TheGoqParticipantHow is that different to what i said zd?
February 27, 2015 3:19 pm at 3:19 pm #1062014goofusParticipantJust vape.
No harmful toxins, just the marvelous tetrahydrocannabinols.
February 27, 2015 3:57 pm at 3:57 pm #1062015yytzParticipantRav Moshe had several reasons to hold that pot was assur. Search on Mi Yodea and you’ll find detailed description and a link to his teshuvah.
I’m not aware of any Rav who has said it’s permissible.
Regardless, one shouldn’t smoke marijuana. For one thing, it’s a big risk, because a large proportion of people experience negative side effects like paranoia and panic attacks, even people who never realized they were predisposed to such mental disorders. And these things (like panic attacks) can persist after one has stopped using the drugs as well. Also, there’s growing evidence marijuana makes certain people come down with major, permanent, life-changing psychiatric diseases like psychosis and schitzophrenia.
February 27, 2015 4:16 pm at 4:16 pm #1062016πRebYidd23ParticipantWe all know the dangers of smoking tobacco, which is just as bad, but some of us do it anyway.
February 27, 2015 4:55 pm at 4:55 pm #1062017zahavasdadParticipantLiquor is probably more dangerous than Marajiuana. And especially this week coming up. Many bochering do not normally drink during the year, but will get drunk on Purim, some will R’L drive or be hit by some who did drink and drive.
Too much Alcohol also causes cirrhosis of the liver and other liver diseases as well
February 27, 2015 5:00 pm at 5:00 pm #1062018β DaasYochid βParticipantRav Moshe assered marijuana (for reasons that would apply regardless of legality) but did not asser tobacco or alcohol.
February 27, 2015 5:03 pm at 5:03 pm #1062019zahavasdadParticipantAt one time Tobacco was the #1 killer in the US, I think now its obesity (Or obesity is rising fast)
February 27, 2015 5:30 pm at 5:30 pm #1062020β DaasYochid βParticipantSo anybody who thinks smoking is assur should also think that Big Gulps are assur.
February 27, 2015 5:32 pm at 5:32 pm #1062021Yserbius123ParticipantI’m curious. Where does Rav Moshe assur it? Can someone find me the chelek and shayloh?
February 27, 2015 5:47 pm at 5:47 pm #1062022Jewish ThinkerParticipantSo anybody who thinks smoking is assur should also think that Big Gulps are assur.
Are you being serious?
February 27, 2015 6:00 pm at 6:00 pm #1062023popa_bar_abbaParticipantA friend of mine was once smoking marijuana and then someone told him its assur, and he didn’t even stop.
That’s what marijuana does to you–makes you not even care if something is assur.
So how can such a thing be muttar?
February 27, 2015 6:03 pm at 6:03 pm #1062024popa_bar_abbaParticipantAt one time smallpox was. Or hunger. Or plague. Or wolves.
Now that we’ve conquered all of those, people mostly die of old age. And we complain about it and call it heart disease.
February 27, 2015 6:03 pm at 6:03 pm #1062025β DaasYochid βParticipantJT, not entirely, but can you articulate a difference?
February 27, 2015 6:22 pm at 6:22 pm #1062026Jewish ThinkerParticipantYes, the chances of dying from smoking is extremely more likely than dying from Big Gulp
February 27, 2015 6:24 pm at 6:24 pm #1062027β DaasYochid βParticipantYserbius123, Y.D. 3, 35.
February 27, 2015 6:28 pm at 6:28 pm #1062028Jewish ThinkerParticipantIt should be noted that Rav Moshe Tendler writes (I think, I’m not certain about this) that in light of recent studies showing the terrible affects of smoking and since less people smoke today, Rav Moshe tz”l would reverse his opinion and prohibit smoking tobacco.
February 27, 2015 6:31 pm at 6:31 pm #1062029gavra_at_workParticipantA quick search shows Iggros Moshe, Yoreh De’ah 3:35
February 27, 2015 6:31 pm at 6:31 pm #1062030lesschumrasParticipantMarijuana has been ( in liquid drop form ) shown to be effective in controlling glaucoma.
February 27, 2015 6:38 pm at 6:38 pm #1062031β DaasYochid βParticipantFebruary 27, 2015 6:43 pm at 6:43 pm #1062032β DaasYochid βParticipantJT, if I compared a high sugar diet to smoking one cigarette, I would get similarly skewed results.
To be fair, let’s compare a sugar laden diet to a smoking habit. They’re both quite unhealthy, and cause people to die. I’d like to see a study fairly comparing the two. Even if smoking is worse, where do we draw the line between inadvisable and assur? Maybe after a high sugar diet, but maybe before smoking. Maybe in between, as you suggest, but meiheicha teisi?
Also, I once saw an article in a halacha journal written by a physician who says he tried to convince R’ Moshe to asser smoking because of the risks, but he wouldn’t. So I don’t buy that R’ Moshe would have assered had he known how dangerous it is. He did know.
The second tayna might be more reasonabis, but again, where do we draw the line? It’s not as if smoking is terribly uncommon.
February 27, 2015 7:15 pm at 7:15 pm #1062033Jewish ThinkerParticipantDaasYochid-Smoking is terrible,even Rav Moshe tz”l who permitted it said it is better not to do it. Also see here, an article which tons of Rabbonim approved of, saying smoking is assur gamur:
http://www.rabbis.org/pdfs/Prohibition_Smoking.pdf
(Mods, please let this link go through, it is from many prominent Rabbis who prohibit smoking. If you can’t post the link, then please post my post without the link)
The article discusses Rav Moshe tz”l’s view.
February 27, 2015 7:21 pm at 7:21 pm #1062034β DaasYochid βParticipantI said it’s better not to smoke. Wouldn’t you agree that it’s better not to have a diet high in refined sugar? My question us when does it reach the level of issur.
I took a quick look at your link. Is there a piece by R’ Bleich about smoking? I’d be curious to see it.
February 27, 2015 7:21 pm at 7:21 pm #1062035Patur Aval AssurParticipantRegarding R’ Moshe on smoking:
Igros Moshe Yoreh Deiah 2:49
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=919&pgnum=67
Igros Moshe Choshen Mishpat 2:76
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=921&pgnum=315
In the second one he also talks about eating unhealthy foods.
February 27, 2015 7:34 pm at 7:34 pm #1062036Sam2ParticipantOf course, the pro-marijuana crowd claims that R’ Moshe’s Psak is based off of incorrect medical information.
February 27, 2015 7:41 pm at 7:41 pm #1062037Patur Aval AssurParticipantThe Chofetz Chaim also writes about smoking.
See Zachor L’Miriam about halfway into Perek 23
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14237&st=&pgnum=46
And Likutei Amarim about halfway into Perek 13
(Sorry, it’s not on hebrewboks.)
February 27, 2015 7:45 pm at 7:45 pm #1062038midwesternerParticipantPopa: You sure those are totally vanquished? The anti vaxxers might yet help bring some of them, or their friends – like polio and measles – back!
February 27, 2015 7:55 pm at 7:55 pm #1062039Jewish ThinkerParticipantDaasYochid- Your comparison to sugar and smoking,
in my opinion is absurd.
Smoking is very, very dangerous and even if you quit right away it could still have an effect on you later in life. Eating candy all day is certainly not as terrible as the effect of smoking. That is besides the fact that smoking is addictive. Even Rav Moshe tz”l says clearly it is assur to get addicted. Also, the dangers were not as known back then as they are today.
{NOTE:I do not mean that eating candy all day is not bad and terrible for your health, but I think that it does not touch base to the terrible sakanah one puts himself into by smoking}
February 27, 2015 8:27 pm at 8:27 pm #1062040β DaasYochid βParticipantJT, visceral, or studies?
February 27, 2015 8:35 pm at 8:35 pm #1062041Jewish ThinkerParticipantDaasYochid-I just don’t want some idiots to look here and see,
smoking is not so bad, just like eating too much candy.
They might then smoke, chas vesholom, and put their life in terrible danger.
Studies have been done. Just look online.
Ask any doctor, there is no comparison between eating candy and smoking.
SMOKING IS ALSO ADDICTIVE. ADDICTIVE.
February 27, 2015 8:47 pm at 8:47 pm #1062042β DaasYochid βParticipantSmoking is terrible. It’s unhealthy, dangerous, smelly, expensive, bad for your teeth, addictive, bad for shidduchim (especially if you’re a girl), dumb, inconvenient, and ADDICTIVE. ADDICTIVE.
But do any of those things necessarily make it assur?
February 27, 2015 8:47 pm at 8:47 pm #1062043popa_bar_abbaParticipantLet’s just say, its more dangerous than MBP.
February 27, 2015 8:57 pm at 8:57 pm #1062044Jewish ThinkerParticipantSmoking is terrible, besides the fact that you put other people at risk with second-hand smoke. I even once saw that third-hand smoke is also dangerous.
February 27, 2015 9:03 pm at 9:03 pm #1062045β DaasYochid βParticipantPopa, is Marijuana B’kash any safer?
February 27, 2015 9:06 pm at 9:06 pm #1062046β DaasYochid βParticipantJT, btw, thanks for answering my question. Visceral it is.
February 27, 2015 9:07 pm at 9:07 pm #1062047Jewish ThinkerParticipantTons of poskim have prohibited smoking. The poskim who permitted it, did it back then, when it was not know the terrible affects it had.
Here are contempary poskim saying assur <Taken from an article by Rabbi Yehuda Spitz> There are more then this, I believe, but this is for starters:
There have also been kol korehs out that have prohibited smoking.
Also from the article:
February 27, 2015 9:16 pm at 9:16 pm #1062048Torah613TorahParticipantWhat is third hand smoke?
Smoking marijuana is like a skunk spraying, if you’re a skunk, or picking your nose in public, if you’re human. Sure, you can do it for medical purposes, but it’s just a really bad idea.
February 27, 2015 9:44 pm at 9:44 pm #1062049Jewish ThinkerParticipantIt is very possible that Rav Moshe tz”l would have prohibited it now.
In 1981, the facts were not as known as how dangerous it is.
Rav Moshe’s own son-in-law, Rav Moshe Tendler, I believe says that today
Rav Moshe tz”l would prohibit it.
February 27, 2015 10:24 pm at 10:24 pm #1062050zahavasdadParticipantI think this post is related to the story that came out this week that the o-u is considering putting hecherhers on Marijuana. it wasnt clear if they are just going to put it on joints or baked goods
February 28, 2015 7:52 pm at 7:52 pm #1062051lebidik yankelParticipantPerhaps assur and muttar depend on the perception that people have; something known to be dangerous is forbidden and something considered harmless is permitted. So if marijuana becomes acceptable it becomes muttar. No different than eating shmaltzy food or living in NYC, which may be subjectively dangerous yet not forbiden.
March 1, 2015 12:22 am at 12:22 am #1062052Jewish ThinkerParticipantI want to quote the conclusion from the article approved by many Rabbonim (the link I posted before)
“Accordingly, this analysis must lead to the unambiguous conclusion that smoking is clearly and unquestionably forbidden by ???? and that this should be made known to all who care about the ???? and their health.
A final note is in order: People who smoke are not, ? ”?, doing so in an attempt to flout ????. In fact, most would dearly wish to quit, but shedding an addiction is no simple matter. While it is important to make clear that ???? prohibits smoking, it is also important not to condemn those who struggle with this issue. Rather we must offer our
full help and support to aid them in their quest for physical and spiritual health.”
END QOUTE
With regard to Marijuana, Rav Moshe tz”l said it is assur for a variety of reasons. See his teshuva on it for more details or look online where his teshuva is explained in English.
March 1, 2015 1:02 am at 1:02 am #1062053nishtdayngesheftParticipantWhy would anyone one assume that marijuana is safer than alcohol or cigarettes? isnt it addictive? Does smoking it have less an effect on the lungs than tobacco? And it’s usually not even filtered?
As far as I know, there is no other purpose to smoking marijuana other than to get high, an altered mental status. Which is not the same with drinking alchahol. One does not automatically or just drink wine, beer or whiskey to get drunk or even high and cigarettes so not have the same mind altering effects as pot.
I have no idea if just taking a small hit does not alter the mental state and if users do just take a small amount which does not alter their mental status at all. But I suspect that is not the case, however I will leave that up to the self proclaimed experts posting here.
March 1, 2015 1:24 am at 1:24 am #1062054β DaasYochid βParticipantJT, IIRC, one of his reasons is kivud av v’eim. So interestingly, our debate is probably academic in most cases, because, at least regarding when most smokers start, probably the vast majority of their parents forbid it.
March 1, 2015 1:31 am at 1:31 am #1062055β DaasYochid βParticipantBTW, google “Paul van der Velpen sugar” and tell me if you think I’m being absurd.
Or, for more articles, google “What Kills More People: Sugar or Cigarettes?”
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