March 16, 2012 12:11 am at 12:11 am #602514zvei dinimParticipant
In your opinion, in the strictly halachical sense, is smoking assur, mutar or somewhere in between?March 16, 2012 12:20 am at 12:20 am #954548LogicianParticipant
polls and strict halachah do not mix.March 16, 2012 12:25 am at 12:25 am #954549soliekMember
heeeeeeeeeeeeeeere we go…March 16, 2012 12:26 am at 12:26 am #954550PurimMashgiachMember
I don’t think rav eliyashev is a cr memberMarch 16, 2012 12:27 am at 12:27 am #954551musicaldignityMember
Rabbi Avigdor Miller said in response to a question that one who smokes does not deserve a shidduch.March 16, 2012 1:05 am at 1:05 am #954552Boro Park GirlMember
ASSUR! Health is something you must watch out for!!March 16, 2012 1:12 am at 1:12 am #954553moreMember
ASSUR. “venishmartem laod venafshosiechem” It is harmful to your body!March 16, 2012 1:23 am at 1:23 am #954554simcha613Participant
Smoking is just as assur as eating fish and meat together (if not more). Sakanah chamira mei’isura,March 16, 2012 1:24 am at 1:24 am #954555uneeqParticipant
See the twenty or so threads about this.March 16, 2012 2:26 am at 2:26 am #954556moreMember
I don’t think rav eliyashev is a cr member
Posted 1 hour ago #
maybe he is;)March 16, 2012 11:47 am at 11:47 am #954557
To all the disbelieving nicotine addicts:
Here is a list of poskim who proclaimed smoking as an absolute issur:
Rav A. L. Shteinman
Rav Moshe Shmuel Shapiro
Rav Michel Yehuda Lefkowitz
Rav Shmuel Wosner
Rav Nisim Karelitz
Rav Y.G. Edelstein
Rav B.D. Povarsky
Rav Matisyahu Salomon
Rav Shimon Bedni
Rav Yitzchok Zilberstein
Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach
Rav Moshe Sterbuch
Rav Avigdor Miller
Rav Yaakov Kaminetzky
Rav Moshe Feinstein
Rav Benzion Abba Shaul
This a partial list. Each and every name here can be verified with specific reference. I only want to know the names behind the heter that is assumed. Permitting smoking is like chometz on Pesach or other maacholos asuros. The issur is severe, not just a chumro.
I have heard some proclaim that Rav Moshe Feinstein ZT”L was matir smoking. That is a complete fabrication. If questioned, I will provide proof otherwise.March 16, 2012 1:17 pm at 1:17 pm #954558cherrybimParticipant
So how come so many frum yeshiva and kollel students smoke? Do they have a right to give other people musser for aveiros and weaknesses?March 16, 2012 1:44 pm at 1:44 pm #954559ParshamanMember
I thought Rav moshe was Matir someone who Started before they knew it was dangerous, he said they did not have to quit.March 16, 2012 1:49 pm at 1:49 pm #954560nishtdayngesheftParticipant
Little knowing one,
Please provide sources for all.March 16, 2012 2:01 pm at 2:01 pm #954561nishtdayngesheftParticipant
More and Simcha 613,
Severely buthchering the posuk or the memra does not lend strength to your claim.
In addition, I do not think smoking is a sakanah. It is unhealthy, but I do not think that is the definition of sakanah.
There are big nafka minas l’halacha if something is a sakana.
For all the cranks, I am not saying muttar or ossur, but it is important to define why and not just use visceral reactions to say if and why.March 16, 2012 2:40 pm at 2:40 pm #954562AinOhdMilvadoParticipant
In Eretz Yisrael it is well known that the majority of poskim have asur’d smoking on Yom Tovim since it can no longer be considered like ochel nefesh.
It’s about time that p’sak travelled over here.
“Is smoking mutar?” – Is suicide mutar?March 16, 2012 3:56 pm at 3:56 pm #954563nitpickerParticipant
it is not a fabrication that rav moshe was mattir smoking but can be found in igros. I am not at home and can’t look up.
based on what he wrote then, It seems to me that his heter would no longer apply.
but that is my conjecture. I have wondered if he later wrote or said otherwise, or if someone else wrote that his heter would not longer apply.March 16, 2012 4:09 pm at 4:09 pm #954564popa_bar_abbaParticipant
Dayan Fisher was a heavy smoker, and when asked whether smoking was allowed, he used to take a deep puff, and then exhale slowly while saying mutttttttaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrr.
Anyone who thinks that this is an open and shut issur, is living with their head in a pile of cigarette ashes.
I don’t smoke anyway, so I don’t particularly care whether it is assur.March 16, 2012 4:28 pm at 4:28 pm #954565
The little I know -“I have heard some proclaim that Rav Moshe Feinstein ZT”L was matir smoking. That is a complete fabrication. If questioned, I will provide proof otherwise.”
I’m totally against smoking. As a medical prof. -I’ve seen the devastating results of smoking.
I haven’t seen the Teshuva in awhile but the way I remember it is like this -It’s Ossur to start because of Gaiva, but you can continue, once addicted, because of Hakol Doshin Bo -so there is no problem of V’neshmartem.
Am I correct? This is what all the smokers rely on.
Even if he held Mutter, I hold nowadays he would say Ossur because at that time noone knew about second-hand smoke. How could it be Mutter because it’s next to impossible to smoke without someone – somewhere breathing it in? Even if there is a Heter to hurt yourself, how could there be a Heter to Mazik s/o else?!?!?March 16, 2012 4:29 pm at 4:29 pm #954566soliekMember
doing aveiros doesnt preclude a person from giving mussar…being an avaryan doesApril 9, 2012 9:17 am at 9:17 am #954567Think firstMember
If I remember correctly Reb Moshe doesn’t even say assur rather he strongly suggets not starting and if someone already smokes he said shomer pesaim Hashem.April 9, 2012 12:41 pm at 12:41 pm #954569lakewhutParticipant
Drinking coke on a daily basis is extremely bad for you. Driving in boro park or anywhere in nyc is extremely dangerous. I think the issue is starting smoking. That is probably because there’s a physical/psychological addiction that isn’t easy to overcome.April 9, 2012 1:37 pm at 1:37 pm #954570akupermaParticipant
Those who hold that smoking is mutar (and especially, allowed on yuntuf) are relying on various Ahronim who 400-500 years ago approved of smoking after being told that smoking was healthy (they know about the high from nicotine, but not the side effects). I doubt one can rely on a pasak halacha that was clearly based on a specific scientific premise (“since we have been told by our doctors that smoking is good for you, it is allowed”) that has since been rejected.April 9, 2012 1:59 pm at 1:59 pm #954571ToiParticipant
akuperma- and what of the many rabbonim in EY and the US who know of the effects and still hold its muttar?April 9, 2012 5:47 pm at 5:47 pm #954572Right PathMember
every drug has side affects.April 9, 2012 6:52 pm at 6:52 pm #954573
The little I know – please provide your sources.
From R’ Elyashiv: It’s assur to *start* smoking (because sakana), but once someone is addicted, it is a tzorech for him so then it is not assur.
Background: The Noda B’yehuda was asked if hunting is mutar; he said no because there are many accidents, so it’s a sakana. But, if it is a tzorech for someone (i.e. his parnasa) then it is no longer assur. So too, someone that is addicted to smoking has a tzorech to smoke so it’s muttar.April 9, 2012 9:13 pm at 9:13 pm #954574
lakewhut -“I think the issue is starting smoking. That is probably because there’s a physical/psychological addiction that isn’t easy to overcome.”
Are you saying -really it’s Ossur but there is a Heter of addiction?
If so, did the person try whatever to get out of the addiction? If not, then he has no Heter! A minimum of the three-pronged approach would be required to consider that he is trying to quit smoking.April 9, 2012 9:18 pm at 9:18 pm #954575
Dr. Dovvshtein -“From R’ Elyashiv: It’s assur to *start* smoking (because sakana), but once someone is addicted, it is a tzorech for him so then it is not assur.”
This Heter of Tzorech can only be for yourself – it can’t be for Mazik. And that is what a smoker is – A Mazik – because of the second-hand smoke!April 9, 2012 9:30 pm at 9:30 pm #954576
Oh you’re right!
The Gadol Hador must have missed that step!
Quick call him up!
Sorry, I apologize, he must have been “mis-informed” (That’s the great heter going around nowadays for everything right?)April 9, 2012 9:44 pm at 9:44 pm #954577
Sorry about the cynicism, and I don’t smoke so this is not getting defensive. I just think it’s pretty ridiculous to have a thread with everyone making up their own “opinions in halacha” about an issue that the g’dolim have already dealt with.April 10, 2012 12:23 am at 12:23 am #954578HaQerMember
“coke on a daily basis is extremely bad for you.”
But if you are addicted already then doing coke should be OK because it’s a tzorech (assuming you have done your hishtadlus to try to stop)April 10, 2012 12:52 am at 12:52 am #954579ohev shalomMember
ASSUR GAMMUR.NOT ONLY ARE YOU KILLING YOURSELF BY SMOKING BUT YOU ARE KILLING ALL THOSE AROUND YOU SO BESIDES THE FACT THAT YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO KILL YOURSELF AND FOR THAT MATTER OTHERS AS WELL, ALSO ITS A PROBLEM OF VEAHAVTA LERAIACHA KAMOCHA.April 10, 2012 4:09 am at 4:09 am #954580
If the poskim really have assur’d it then why in E”Y is there more of a mentality to smoke? There are chashuve rabbonim in E”Y who smoke. In America, people lean more to the side of assur.
In my opinion, the poskim of America (R’ Yaakov, R’Moshe, R’ Shmuel Kamenetsky etc.) were against smoking. Torah Umesorah put out a whole video against smoking. They said it should not be done. In E”Y, although the poskim have assur’d it, no one has published out psakos against smoking.
I think the answer might be that nobody would listen if the psakos were published, but how does that figure out with all the other psakos in E”Y that are published?
What I find ironic is that R’ Eliashiv shlita the posek in Eretz Yisroel, assur’d smoking on Yom Tov, R’ Moshe Feinstein zatzal the posek in Americasaid that it should be assur to smoke on Yom Tov, but everybody does it so it must be a davar shavah lechol nefesh and it would be muttar, and yet there are ten times more the people in E”Y smoking on Yom Tov than in America.April 10, 2012 3:35 pm at 3:35 pm #954581
Dr. Dovvshtein -“Oh you’re right!
The Gadol Hador must have missed that step!
Quick call him up!
Sorry, I apologize, he must have been “mis-informed” (That’s the great heter going around nowadays for everything right?)”
Your sarcasm doesn’t change my point. I don’t know how the Shaila was posted to him, nor do I know if he knows or knew about Second-hand smoke at the time of his P’sak.
So if you want to say Muttar, which to me smoking is a classic case of Hezek which the Torah says Ossur -you and anyone like you are the ones who have to call him up, not me!
You can’t just assume when he said Muttar it included this issue, esp. because the Teshuva says only Tzorech -this would have nothing to do with Mazik!April 10, 2012 5:04 pm at 5:04 pm #954582
Here is the main reference to the issur psakim against smoking. The sefer is called “Chaim Lelo Ishun” written by Rav Yechezkel Aschayk, published in Eretz Yisroel several years ago (publication date is missing). The letters of haskamah are open and specific. The haskamos are from: Rav Shteinman, Rav Moshe Shmuel Shapiro, Rav Michel Yehuda Lefkowitz, Rav Shmuel Halevi Wosner, Rav Nissin Karelitz, Rav Yerachmiel Gershon Edelstein, Rav Boruch Dov Povarsky, Rav Matisyahu Salomon, Rav Shimon Bedny, and Rav Yitzchok Zilbershtein. The other names listed in my previous are quoted in the text of the sefer. Most include the exact language. There is also a letter (dated Menachem Av 5764) that concerns the issur to begin the smoking addiction signed by Rav Moshe Shmuel Shapiro, Rav Michel Yehuda Lefkowitz, Rav Aharon Lein Shteinman, Rav Shmuel Auerbach, and Rav Nissim Karelitz. Rav Elyashiv added his signature to that letter. It is true that this letter addresses the issur to begin smoking, but it also states clearly that smokers must wean themselves off of it, and should never smoke in public places where it can bother others. However, in contrast to an earlier comment, this letter does NOT state that it is muttar to continue smoking because it is a tzorech. I request a reference to such a statement from Rav Elyashiv.
I also call attention to an earlier sefer “Pe’er tachas Efer” that addressed the issur against smoking.
There is also a lengthy psak about the issur against smoking issued by the RCA. This psak discusses all earlier teshuvos from poskim on the subject, including the parameters of “Shomer psoyim Hashem” which was mentioned in one psak from Rav Moshe Feinstein. This RCA psak is available online.April 11, 2012 6:20 pm at 6:20 pm #954583ohev shalomMember
it annoys me a lot when people say that if smoking is assur then how do all the gedolim smoke in e”y and all over….because first off not all of them smoke. but for the ones that do… that doesnt mean it is mutar for people to start unfortunately when they started smoking way back in the 1900’s they didnt think it was in the least bad for a person, in fact, just the opposite! unfortunately, again, smoking is addicting which means (for those who dont know) when the body doesnt get the substance it is addicted to, it feels weak and unable to go on. it becomes as if without that substance it will die. it basically becomes like a life support. so it is not simple at all to quit. and it takes a lot of strength and time to do so. so just because these gedolim smoke (or did smoke) does not mean it is mutar.April 11, 2012 7:16 pm at 7:16 pm #954584
I definitely don’t think it’s muttar to smoke, in fact I think it’s assur gamur. But I was in E”Y and the streets are filled with people smoking and it’s a total israeli mentality that whenever you want you can stop and take a smoke break. You see kids not looking older than 12 smoking. On yom tov, everyone smokes it’s like a total heter. I’ve haven’t seen any sign in E”Y about smoking but I’ve seen signs about plenty of other things. In America everyone seems so more towards assur and all against it. Thank you the little I know for posting about Chaim lelo ishun. I guess I should check that out.April 11, 2012 7:24 pm at 7:24 pm #954585
The little I know –
At least you know some truth. A lot of people aren’t interested in the truth esp. when it comes to smoking.April 11, 2012 10:14 pm at 10:14 pm #954586that jewish girlMember
well i dont think you are allowed to, because its forbidden to do something that can cause death to yourself. That being said, smoking can get in your lungs and kill you so i don’t think its permissible.April 12, 2012 3:58 pm at 3:58 pm #954587HIEParticipant
it’s so interesting when people talk halachos and have no idea what their talking about, this thread being an example!April 15, 2012 9:25 pm at 9:25 pm #954588
If someone asked me if eating chazzer is mutar, I would have no problem saying that it is assur. I do not have to be a posek to know that. The same situation is true for smoking. Scientific research is conclusive that smoking is injurious to the human body, even a single cigarette. It is also clear that regular smoking causes a variety of illnesses, many with fatal outcomes. I do not feel that I am taking on an authoritative role as a posek when I state that it is 100% assur. Rather, I challenge anyone to find a heter for it, based on the current body of scientific knowledge. Don’t start with quoting a heter from rav Moshe Feinstein or Rav Elyashiv. Neither of them ever said it is mutar. Now, who did?April 16, 2012 12:13 am at 12:13 am #954589
There is a pnei yehoshua (I think it’s in shabbos or beitzah) that says it’s muttar to smoke on yom tov because it’s good for the digestive system and therefore it’s a davar haveh l’chol nefesh. R’ Eliashiv shlita in his sefer on Kesuvos says that this pnei yehoshua was bizmanam when they thought it was healthy to smoke. However, nowadays, since we know that it’s mazik l’nefesh it’s not a davar shava l’chol nefesh and therefore it would be assur to smoke on yom tov.April 16, 2012 2:01 am at 2:01 am #954591
The question of ??? ???? ??? ??? may actually be a different halacha in E”Y and US. However, this assumes it is mutar to do altogether. The rate of smoking has decreased in E”Y, although it is far more epidemic in E”Y than in America. Those rabbonim who continue to smoke in E”Y have either disconnected themselves from listening to halacha (see the poskim above who paskened clearly that it is assur) or have decided for themselves that it would be too difficult for them. I do not know how to justify their behavior. However, with all the Torah knowledge they may possess, I would not accept any of them to serve as eidus by the chupahs of my children, since they are definitely being oveir an issur. Quoting poskim or others who spoke about smoking before its dangers were known is irrelevant to a discussion of halacha, since we must judge by the present accumulated information. And it is without any doubt that smoking is assur.
By the way, all those I know that smoke do so on Yomtov as well. And there is a serious question of whether it can be done on Yomtov even if it were to be somehow mutar at other times.April 16, 2012 3:39 am at 3:39 am #954592mochoh timchehMember
whos the Rav HaMasmich of the CR?April 16, 2012 4:26 am at 4:26 am #954593oomisParticipant
“By the way, all those I know that smoke do so on Yomtov as well. And there is a serious question of whether it can be done on Yomtov even if it were to be somehow mutar at other times.”
I have often wondered how smoking could possibly be muttar on yom tov (if at all). Even when lit from another source of flame, the act of smoking causes the cigarette paper and tobacco to burn down, and the cigarette butt eventually needs to be extinguished or it can be a fire hazard. This has never made sense to me.April 16, 2012 3:38 pm at 3:38 pm #954594Bocher613Participant
I have heard In the name of many gedolim that smoking the first time is aser. But after that first time is muterApril 16, 2012 7:59 pm at 7:59 pm #954595
Your statement is hard to believe. I insist on references. Otherwise, I assume it is inaccurate. It is identical to claiming that chazzer is assur, but only the first time.
The Chofetz Chaim, in one of the maamorim in which he proclaims smoking as assur, highlights the submitting to an addiction as assur. One may be meshubad to HKB”H, not to anything or anyone else.April 16, 2012 9:25 pm at 9:25 pm #954597REALISTMember
Consider amending your moniker to ‘Bochur612’.
And from there, it’s a slippery slope…April 16, 2012 9:33 pm at 9:33 pm #954598REALISTMember
BOCHUR613 said, “I have heard In the name of many gedolim…”.
I have heard from many ‘now-deceased’ smokers that they wished they had stopped smoking when the world learned of its dangers.
I trust what I heard first hand, over what you may have heard many times removed from its questionable source.April 16, 2012 9:53 pm at 9:53 pm #954599frontlineMember
I have a friend who asked R Chaim Kanievski if it’s muttar to smoke on Yom Tov. R’ Chaims response was ” Gam B’chol Assur”
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