- This topic has 8 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 6 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
In the “makeup” thread, several people were complaining that the focus both here in the CR and in the frum world in general is primarily on the things women do wrong. So here’s a topic on something men do – bittul Torah.
What is considered bittul Torah?
Exactly how much are men michuyav to learn?
Is doing anything that takes one away from Torah and that one doesn’t absolutely have to do(ie, commenting on the CR) bittul Torah?
Sources appreciated.
The Gemara (Sanhedrin 99a) explains Bamidbar 15:31 “Ki Davar Hashem Bazah” – “because the word of Hashem he mocked … he deserves Kares” as “this is one who could learn Torah and does not learn”.
The Rambam (Hilchos Talmud Torah 3:13) brings this: “And also he who could learn Torah and does not because of laziness is included in mocking the word of Hashem.
In Shulchan Aruch 246:25: Anyone who could learn Torah and does not, or learned and left to Havlei Olam is included in he who mocks the word of Hashem. The Rema adds that it is forbidden to speak idle talk (Yoma 19b v’Debarta Bam – speak in Torah and not idle talk). The Mishnah Berurah 155:4 writes that Talmud Torah has no limit and its obligation is all day whenever there is open time, as it says “the Torah should not be forsaken from your mouth” (Yehoshua 1:8).
The Yerushalmi adds: He who sets time for Torah and only learns at set times is breaking the Bris.
In Shulchan Aruch 2:4 we find the Halachah that one who forgets one thing from the Torah … because of not properly reviewing transgresses the Torah commandment of Devarim 4:9 which refers to forgetting Ma’amad Har Sinai and includes forgetting any part of Torah.
In Menachos 99b Ben Dama asks R’Yishmael: I, who learned the entire Torah, can I learn Greek wisdom? He answered that the Pasuk says, “The Torah should not depart from your mouth and learn it day and night” – if you find time which is not day or night only then can you learn Greek wisdom.
In Binyan Olam chapters 6 and 13 Bitul Torah is discussed at length. There is also qualitative Bitul Torah. Learning without full effort, concentration and comprehension is Bitul Torah (Shulchan Aruch ha’Rav, Talmud Torah 2:4).
No, it is not bitul torah for men to post here. It is a mitzvah to help yidden with providing advice, recommendations, organizing tehillim readings, giving chizuk, etc. We also do engage in learning here. We discuss sheilos that come up, issues of importance to living the frum lifestyle, answer sheilos on the daf yomi, etc. We also seek advice on yeshivos, where to chap a shiur, where tog et seforim, etc. So, this is not bitul torah. I am sure most of us guys on here learn every day, perhaps some more than others, but a lot of us also work or get an education to have a parnassa. Everything within balance.
i heard if something is done l’toeles (sorry don’t remember where) then it’s not bittul torah and a person needs time to relax (in other words post on the cr)
The CR is (IMHO) a virtual bais medrash! The “other” chat rooms are bitul torah, and in many cases, mevazeh torah.
Unless you’re CR’ing while in the real Bais Medrash or during your seder. There’s a quote (not sure who): The true masmid is not one that learns 22 hours a day; its the one who learns 60 minutes in ah hour.
Learning time is learning time, down time is down time. Chill out, people!
Yes, yes it is! Go now! QUICKLY!
myfriend-
In Menachos 99b Ben Dama asks R’Yishmael: I, who learned the entire Torah, can I learn Greek wisdom? He answered that the Pasuk says, “The Torah should not depart from your mouth and learn it day and night” – if you find time which is not day or night only then can you learn Greek wisdom.
The pshtus is that the halacha is not in accordance with that gemara. The gemara over there brings a middle shita that says one is yotzei lo yamush with krias shma in the morning and evening, and this is the stama d’gemara in Nedarim, and is brought down l’halacha by the Shach in Hilchos Talmud Torah. Surely one who has time to learn and does not do so out of laziness falls under the category of moshav leitzim and is not doing what he was put here for, but l’halacha one is mekayeim the mitzva with a set time in the morning and evening.
Bittul zman.
The idea that halachically one must always learn unless faced with an emergency is a daas yuchid. The Ran paskens so, however, Ridvaz in Tshuvos chelek gimmel, #416, points out that virtually all Rishonim disagree. Rashi, Rosh, Ritva, Rashba, Rabbeinu Yonah, Sefer Hayirayim, all paskin that you are mekayim the Cheyuv of learning with Krias Shma Shacharis V’Arvis. Anything more is a reshus and a mitzvah b’alma. This is according to Stama D’gmarah in Brochus 35b.
Also, see the Ohr Samaich in Hilchos T”t. I paraphrase: “….. How could Hashem establish a choiv of Talmud Torah for everyone (we are all different)? Therefore, the Chachamim explained the true nature of this cheyiv (Talmud Torah) as follows: Krias Shma Shacharis V’arvis is a fulfillment of the passuk of Vhigesa Boi Yoimam V’layla……. & I am not satisfied with th Ran’s explanation……….”
Of course, there is always the inyan of learning Torah, but again, that is a crucial inyan but not a cheyiv.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.