August 19, 2021 1:06 am at 1:06 am #2001224Shimon NodelParticipant
Avirah, your understanding of this Rambam is not meduyak. You added in your own hagaha that ‘ohavah kefufo’ doesn’t mean love but rather providing. This is a false interpretation. The Rambam already says to provide, this is in addition to providing.
Why a woman is not instructed to love her husband could be because it comes naturally more for a woman to love her spouse than it does for a man. (Or more specifically, that a man carries the greater imperative to initiate his show of love.) And there are several examples in the gemara of Amoraim who placed significance on a certain level of ‘romanticism.’ This is a whole different topic though.
Regardless, the halacha is clear as it is stated. It might be irrelevant for most people, but I just wanted to point out the specific obligation inherent in a Jewish marriage for those who might have thought otherwise.August 19, 2021 9:51 am at 9:51 am #2001228
Shimon, it wasn’t a hagaah, it was the fact that the rambam in the next few words says what oheva kegufo means by example of how he uses his money. He qualifies his statement by example; if he had just said oheva by itself, or given the example of other chavivus, compliments, etc…then you’d be right.
As to a woman naturally loving her husband more… I’d say that’s a much bigger hanacha and a much bigger chidush; where did you get that from? We know elsewhere that love means giving; that’s not my chidush, it’s all over seforim…ahava comes from “hav”. My only chidush is that that’s the rambam’s kavanah. Your pshat on the other hand, ignores the rambam’s qualification and invents an entirely new idea that women love their husbands more…
I’d say if anything that in my experience that it’s the opposite; men have to win over women more.August 19, 2021 2:11 pm at 2:11 pm #2001157Shimon NodelParticipant
Avirah, your understanding of this Rambam is not meduyak. You added in your own hagaha (idk where you came up with this) that ‘ohavah kefufo’ doesn’t mean love but rather providing. This is a false interpretation and a real twist. The Rambam already says to provide, this is in addition to providing.
Why a woman is not instructed to love her husband could be because it comes naturally more for a woman to love her spouse than it does for a man. Also, the woman’s need to feel loved is more integral to her than it is for a man. (Not saying men don’t need to feel loved sometimes, but I think anyone who is married [and I’m not] might resonate with the reality that the wife sometimes experiences different emotions and expresses it differently based on circumstances.)
Regardless, the halacha is clear as it is stated. It might be irrelevant for most people, but I just wanted to point out the specific obligation inherent in a Jewish marriage for those who might have thought otherwise.August 19, 2021 6:47 pm at 6:47 pm #2001418
I have to say that I’ve seen no examples of iyun skills on here… I’m not a big talmid chochom, but I received a good chinuch and was given the skills necessary to learn up a sugya…rav Meir Shapiro was asked why he made a yeshiva for 1000 talmidim even chazal say that only one in a thousand end up being moreh horaah, to which he answered – at least the other 999 will know enough to be able to tell who that one gadol is. That’s how I see myself in learning; echad min hachaburah; I don’t know that much, and I’m not a huge lamdan, but I can be nosei venosen, and I can tell when I or someone else hit a nice chidushAugust 20, 2021 3:21 pm at 3:21 pm #2001601Avram in MDParticipant
“That being said, the rambam follows this statement of oheva kegufo etc with discussion of how to spend his money. The ahavah he refers to seems to mean giving her things and making her feel loved. He is not referring to an obligation as to how he feels about her.”
The Rambam said two things there, and they are parallel:
- Honor your wife more than yourself – give her things according to your wealth (i.e., even if you cheap out on yourself, don’t cheap out on her)
- Love her like your own self – don’t make her afraid of you and speak nicely to her
So the love being discussed here is not just giving her financial benefits and gifts, but affects how he treats her.
“when discussing the woman’s obligations to her husband, the rambam noteably omits loving him”
He says to respect (be in awe of) him, which, in parallel to how a man should treat his wife, gives instructions on how she should treat her husband.
In short, men should treasure their wives, and wives should admire their husbands. This is the foundation of a healthy marriage.August 20, 2021 6:57 pm at 6:57 pm #2001622
Avram; I’ll respond to you in the main thread that was started – i do hear where you’re coming from, but i disagree, as i will explain there
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