Is the Problem Really Purim?

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  • #608308

    Ben Levi
    Participant

    Every year I am bothered by something and I always hope it won’t happen again.

    But it does.

    There is a concept now-a-days called the Kiddush Club, there is a also an increasing acceptance of drunkenness Friday nights and at SZ’s and the drinking at Chasunah’s has gotten completley out of hand.

    One would think that there would be ever increasing awareness of this and articles and speeches would be given stressing the dangers of it and the absolute complete lack of any historical precedent for such behaviour within the Jewish World.

    Yet it seems as if every year when Purim roles around the focus becomes drinking on Purim.

    Why all the Focus on Purim?

    Why the acting as if Purim is the Problem?

    Why is everything else ignored, everything that really has no mekor and the one thing that has a “mekor” and historical precedent is treated as if it is the source of all Klal Yisroels ills?

    #932045

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Why all the Focus on Purim?

    I know! Why only purim! We can drink all the time; not only on purim! Why do people only drink so much on purim? Why the focus on purim?

    #932046

    WIY
    Member

    Ben Levi

    Because on Purim you have Rov of the Bachurim getting drunk and quite a few end up in hospitals from overdoing it.

    #932047

    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    So start a campaign to stop drunkenness year round! Instead of sitting around anonymously complaining about it.

    #932048

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    Why all the Focus on Purim?

    Why the acting as if Purim is the Problem?

    Purim is NOT the problem, CV. The problem is the lack of supervision that happens on purim. When you have lack of supervision on shabbos, Chasunahs, etc. (via parents not taking responsibility for their children), the children drink as well.

    It just happens to be that Purim is a time where those who usually are responsible for the bochrim (Their Rabbaim, yeshiva, and sometimes even their parents) refuse to take responsibility.

    #932049

    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    Why do you say there is no source for getting drunk every Shabbos? Look at Shabbos 66b and in Rashi there. (Note the familiar word, Mivasmi. It probably means they went to sleep.)

    #932050

    WIY:

    On Chanuka, people often end up burning down their houses and quite a few of them have ended up in hospitals with serious burns.

    Should we forbid lighting the Menorah?

    #932051

    apushatayid
    Participant

    It’s not purim. It’s facebook. Maybe It’s facebook on purim. Still waiting for the statistics.

    #932052

    WIY
    Member

    The Kanoi Next Door

    “Should we forbid lighting the Menorah?”

    No we should forbid people from being stupid and careless and doing things in a way that can bring them harm. Nobody is saying that a bachur cant have a glass of wine at a Purim seuda, but the idea of the boys going collecting and drinking tons of booze which is no mitzvah anyways and getting stoned out of their keilim and rachmana litzlon ending up in hospitals has got to stop.

    #932053

    YW Moderator-42
    Moderator

    Most of the “problems” people have with Purim are the hard alcohol and beer parties Purim night – these have about as much a “mekor” as drinking at a SZ or on Shabbos. The mitzvah that I know of is to drink wine Purim day. Halevei that kids today would only do that.

    #932054

    sw33t
    Member

    apashutayid: +1

    #932055

    i got a whole lecture during class yesterday about it- I don’t plan on drinking more than a glass of wine if possible- but unlikely. However, the thing that really bothers me is that instead of my cousin going to new orleans for his 21st birthday, he came to israel and his parents packed beer in their suitcases.

    #932056

    agittayid
    Participant

    There is ambivalence associated with alcohol and drinking. We associate drinking with having a good time and celebration. At Purim, it is associated with religious significance. Yet, drinking is also associated with accidents, violence, and poor choices. I recall when this ambivalence was restricted to the secular society. Now, the ambivalence seems part of the frum society as well.

    #932057

    Sam2
    Participant

    YW42: See the Machzor Vitry and Sefer Chassidim, who give Mekoros to drinking Purim night (not that we Pasken by them, but a source exists).

    #932058

    FIA
    Member

    Sam2: You provided a memory on the chiyuv to drink on Purim night. Is there any mekor not to drink Purim night? And what leads you to think “we” pasken which way?

    And, is not the basic halacha in S’A that the chiyuv on Purim is to get drunk, not simply to drink more than usual? (Granting the other opinions that are more lenient in allowing one not to get drunk.)

    #932059

    Ben Levi
    Participant

    About drinking at night.

    There’s another Mekor right in the begining of Otzar HaMedrashim (eisentien) there is a detailed story about a Gaon Rav Meir (Rav Chaim Kanievsky states the MEdrash is referring to the Gaon and not the Tanna)that occured when he got drunk Purim Night.

    However I am not trying to discuss the Halachic Aspect.

    I would think that all reasonable people are certainly cognizant of the Fact the Purim is the one time where there is a real and actual Halachic basis that demands drunkeness.

    How that plays out in actuality( meaning whether we are noheig like that) is not the point.

    My queastion is why the focus on Purim?

    Why the repeated articles from people seemingly ignoring basic Gemorahs?

    And why are these same people quiet the whole year around?

    #932060

    YW Moderator-42
    Moderator

    http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/archive/157939/Is+that+L‘Chaim+Worthwhile?.html

    This article says to drink in moderation on Purim so I guess will noderate while drinking…

    #932061

    WIY
    Member

    YW Moderator-42

    Whats this “noderating” you speak of?

    #932062

    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    So that means that after drinking a cup we’ll have to wait two hours until it gets approved and we can finally feel the effects. That can be very dangerous, you know. When you don’t feel that it did anything you might take too much. Oh, but then you’ll get the error message that you should slow down.

    #932063

    WIY:

    Agreed.

    #932064

    oomis
    Participant

    I just wanted to wish everyone a freilichen and safe Purim.

    #932065

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Oomis, thank you and same to you and yours.

    #932066

    ThePurpleOne
    Member

    what do all those worried parents out thr do on purim?? im just glad that my parents dont hav 2 see my older bros drunk.. prob is quite traumatizing.. only thing im rly worried abt is all the car crashes that cud happen w these drunk yeshiva guys driving teens arnd..

    #932067

    yossi z.
    Member

    Granted there are sources for some of these questionable practices (over)drinking Purim night, but honestly speaking do you really think that is what the younger bochurim are thinking? Remember they are yeshivah kids and looking for an excuse (trust me, I was one of them). This is not to say all are like this, SOME do act legitimately but at the same time they are acting responsible about it as well.

    #932068

    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    Thanks Oomis, and I wish the same to everyone. Especially Popa bar Abba, don’t ruin too many of your brain cells, we enjoy your posts too much and will miss them. 🙂

    My male siblings assure us that they will be “fine” and definitely won’t be doing anything risky during the many hours they are out. Let’s hope!

    #932069

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    male siblings

    Is that similar to brothers?

    #932070

    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    DaasYochid: LOL I guess I went a little too far to ensure my anonymity. I usually say “male family members” or “siblings” to disguise gender/type 🙂

    #932071

    ThePurpleOne
    Member

    torah-

    haha ya my bro sed hell call in middle of the day sometime so we know hes still alive!! ahh so scared 4 my bros!! and for everyone elses bros and bro in laws.. at least i dont havta see my drunk brothers tho!! theyr w their frends collecting the whole purim (and getting drunk!!)

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