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I’ve been noticing more and more Tznius problems in certain neighborhoods where skirts only reaching, but not covering, the knees have become the norm. I believe some women see others are all doing it so so ehow they’ve come to believe it’s ok but it clearly is not. How does one try to sincerely help someone they see dressed this way, and what can be said to them so they won’t take offense and will hopefully realize the mistake they’re making and try to reverse the current trend?
Throw burkas on them
I wonder if those girls are beyond help. They know they’re doing very wrong and yet they publicly do it anyways. They’re not ignoramuses and yet the violate the Torah every moment they walk in public.
This is just my opinion, but I think it would be very out of place for you to give missal to people you don’t know. Maybe the woman that is wearing a skirt that barely covers her knees when she stands, let alone sits, is a baalas teshuva that is wearing a skirt for the first time, after overcoming much insecurity. Imagine what she’d feel like if you would walk up to her and say, “excuse me, I’m saying this only cuz I care abt your olam Habah- your skirt is really too short. It’s inappropriate! You are causing so many men to sin!”
Talk abt a chilul Hashem….
IMO never give mussar to anyone you dont know, not only might they not listen , it might even backfire
Women don’t sew their own clothes anymore. They length of their skirts is beyond their control. And one is not permitted to give mussar to people who will not be influenced by it.
Some women do sew their own clothes. It is ridiculous to say that the length of your skirt is not in your control. You may not be able to control what is being offered, but you sure can control the length of the skirt you put on when you get dressed. “lack of control” is one of the lamest and most overused excuses of this generation.
“And one is not permitted to give mussar to people who will not be influenced by it.”
I am not commenting on this specific topic, but the Orchos Tzadikim (Sha’ar Hachanifus) says: ????? ?? ???? ????? ?? ??? ???? ????? ???? ???? ?? ?????? ?? ?????? ??? ?? ??? ???? ???????? ?? ?? ??? ?????? ??? ?? ?? ???? ?????? ??????? ???? ????? ??? ?? ????? ?????? ?????? ?????? ??????
Granted he concludes by saying ??? ?? ???? ???? ????? ??? ????? ????? ?? ????? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???????? ?? ?? ???? ?? ???? ?? ?? ????? ????? ??? ????? ???? ??? ????? ?? ???? ??? ???? ??? ????? ???? ????? ???? ????? ?????? ??? ???? ??????
So there is a very fine line that needs to be traversed in any of these types of situations.
Here in Lakewood, people put up posters. There’s a nice fancy one in color with a translation of a letter from Reb Moshe…
Can you call up Rabbonim/Rebbetzins in the neighborhood and ask them to address the issue?
To the poster who just got deleted: the topic is giving musser. It is now Elul and any sweeping generalizations about which people we can expect/notice bad middos from will not squeak by so easily.
Franco – although I agree with your post, the store does not provide the choices, but the tailor does. Those skirts you speak of that brush the floor are only wide enough for one leg on many people. They may cover ground but they are horrifically tight. That is no better, skirts need to be adjusted if they do not fit, you cannot rely on the stores.
Have you considered writing a passive aggressive post on ywn about it?
The best way is to make sure to wear a skirt of proper length yourself. If it’s someone who might be mekabel, just tell them about your seamstress, and mention what a fantastic job she did lengthening your dress.
what are you talking about? what is passive aggressive about saying that the skirts may be long enough but they are extremely narrow? She was recommending these skirts as more tzanua, I was telling her they aren’t.
Was there some misplaced underlying agenda I added subliminally without realizing it?
Scolding random strangers is a good way to get a punch in the nose, if not arrested for assault. Anyway, you may have noticed that it’s Elul. Now’s the time to consider your own short-comings, pun intended.
when you give the mussar you shouldn’t give it over as mussar. you should say it with gentleness and love and be sure it comes over from the heart not in a tone of rebuke. of course we’re obligated to give mussar even to strangers but this is how it should be done. no one will bite your head off for correcting them. (they don’t want to get arrested for assaulting someone giving mussar.) hopefully they’ll mend their ways but once you corrected her you’ve done your part.
Throw burkas on them
Have you considered writing a passive aggressive post on ywn about it?
Since I’m in the mood…..
Why is it “clearly not” allowed to have a skirt that reaches the knee but doesn’t cover it 🙂
Francorachel3
I think the best way you could do it is to be as modest as you can be yourself, and if ever someone asks about it, tell them exactly why (but don’t go out and tell them why without first being asked)
Syag, popa was addressing the OP.
I have taken many skirts, mine and my daughters to seamstresses ( if you like that better than tailors) to be lengthened. And yes, it is very sad that people who care about stringency in Halacha in other matters are wearing short and/or tight skirts.
In my opinion you have to be extremely careful how you rebuke someone, especially on the matter of tznius as it is quite a touchy subject especially around people who don’t keep the halachos to the fullest. Tznius is a hard mitzvah for women so before you are quick to judge look behind and see the real story. Once you know the background of the people, only then can you judge and rebuke.
Make sure your tznius is up to scratch as well before you do anything otherwise you will be dubbed a hypocrite.
Also be tactful in how you approach the subject. the word tznius switches lots of people off and they dont listen.
BeHatslacha.
I have seen the prices. They are about the same for a decent skirt as for a house.
A long enough skirt doesn’t necessarily cost more than a short one. Sometimes quite the contrary. If you find a house fir the same price as a skirt i’d like to buy a couple of houses!
Youve got to be practical she probably knows this is not how a frum woman shiuld idealy be dressed( i dont want to go into halachic questions …) if shes been thru bes yakov the mussar is probably coming out her ears. And any mention about olam haba will go straight out the other ear. Smokers know they probably wil get cancer but it doesnt help y should olam haba? Keeping the tora need much more depth than that. We are not muslims who must sacrifice our life (or fun) purely for the sake of another world.
Informing someone of an issur is if he thinkz its muttar. Here is a totaly different issue. The are many possible factors influencing her actions the question is if you or anyone can change that. One major problem is realizing the importance and royalty of every jew. I heard that the british royal family are not permitted to be seen with sleeves above the elbow because it is not befitting a princess ( not because of halacha!) Giving criticism (i refuse to call that mussar) would certainly not help make her feel more royal or good about herself. However tbis high level of feeling like a princess is probably not the only problem. She possibly has a low opinion of herself and needs to fill that emptiness with fitting in building her self worth on what others think of her. You must also take into account the shalom bayis and how much love, respect and satisfaction she gets from that relationship that she may feel a need to compensate. Some of these issues u can help with perhaps with guidance from an experienced rav who unddrstands peopls issues even if only by giving a compliment and showing u rspct her for who she is ( witbout being patronizing) Maybe she is waiting for someone to notice her and show she cares. In summary as msilas yesharim makes clear in hakdama mussar requires extreme depth and chochma usualy much more than peopl realize.
Wishing u hatzlacha in reaching the heart of every jew.
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