November 12, 2018 7:36 pm at 7:36 pm #1621690332Participant
Is there a word in davening that you always mispronounced and only recently learned the correct way?November 12, 2018 8:31 pm at 8:31 pm #1621722
bal gevuros and baal gevuros – where bal means the opposite no strengthNovember 12, 2018 8:32 pm at 8:32 pm #1621717Ctrl Alt DelParticipant
Not exactly a mispronunciation, but I never seem to be able to get past v’koreiv pizureinu in YT mussaf without an “ay yanny, yay yay” right afterward. It’s just ingrained in my head.🤣November 12, 2018 8:39 pm at 8:39 pm #1621730
A chatof is a shvo that is hard to pronounce under letters ה, ח, א, ע. Therefore the stress is never under a chatof. The shem Hashem should be pronounced as most words and as required by dikduk at the end as indicated in the Nodah Beyehudah.November 12, 2018 9:02 pm at 9:02 pm #1621732
The shem א-לוה should be pronounced on the לו not at the end.November 12, 2018 9:03 pm at 9:03 pm #1621738GadolhadorahParticipant
If you are a lifelong Ashkenaz and happened to find yourself in a Sehphardeshe shul for davening, there are certain words added in the kadish (already in Aramaic) that are real tounge-twisters that never seem to come out sounding the same wayNovember 12, 2018 9:04 pm at 9:04 pm #1621736
The shem above א-לוה should be pronounced as ah and not ha at the end as the word גבוה.November 12, 2018 10:15 pm at 10:15 pm #1621758The FrumguyParticipant
Way too many shlichei tzibbur mispronounce Hakadosh Baruch Hu’s name. It is with a cholam (Adonai), not a cheerek (Adeenai).
I believe the tzibbur is not even allowed to answer Amen when it’s mispronounced.November 12, 2018 10:24 pm at 10:24 pm #1621767Takes3tomakemangosParticipant
It’s noy, or nuhye not nai. If you are sefardi it is nai.
Laskern, are you saying that it is pronounced eLOkai?November 12, 2018 10:30 pm at 10:30 pm #1621770goygetterParticipant
Heard a baal tfilah chazunitzing on rosh chodesh “uminchasam veniskeihem kamidbaaaar” 🎶November 12, 2018 10:35 pm at 10:35 pm #1621777goygetterParticipant
Yes any —oy suffix in ashkenazy would be —–ay in sfaradiNovember 12, 2018 10:46 pm at 10:46 pm #1621782
Take3tomakmangos, Rabbenu Bechaye says that in סורו נא אדני by lot, nai is the plural which for ashkenazim’s pronounciation is incorrect. Yes the correct pronounciation is eLOah.November 12, 2018 10:50 pm at 10:50 pm #1621784anonymous.chaiParticipant
It’s not shihakol NÉE-HEE-YEH
It’s shihakol NEE-HEH-YEHNovember 12, 2018 11:36 pm at 11:36 pm #1621795
bigdoil zroiacha YI-DMU…. not YID-MU. they have different meanings.
VA-YI-REU es Hashem va-yaaminu…not VA-YIR-U, they have different meanings.November 12, 2018 11:47 pm at 11:47 pm #1621796
its not SHIhakol its SHE-hakol. a segol under the shin not a chirikNovember 13, 2018 2:05 am at 2:05 am #1621811
knaidlach, Thank you for pointing that out. The dagesh in the dalet changes the meaning from looks like to being still. The extra yud changes the meaning from seeing to fearing.November 13, 2018 7:27 am at 7:27 am #1621907ToiParticipant
Ya, not that I do this wrong but worth noting, where you put the emphasis on ve’uhavtuh in K”S will dictate whether you’re yotzei acc. to R Shloime Miller. I think R Belsky held that it’s obviously better to do it correctly but not me’akev, though I don’t understand why, as mis-emphasizing changes the tense from future to past.November 13, 2018 7:57 am at 7:57 am #1621919Avi KParticipant
The big problem is inadvertently saying apikorsut. For example, in keriat shema saying that Hashem נשבה לאבותינו instead of נשבע. Those who have trouble with the “ch” sound say מקלקל עולם בהסד. See also Megilla 24b.November 13, 2018 7:58 am at 7:58 am #1621920
Mispronouncing a segol or a sheva as a chirik, as in “SHI-hakol” or “asher kidEEshanu” seems to be a uniquely American mistake – I have never heard an Israeli or a Brit say it like that.
Another bad mistake leading to an opposite meaning similar to “bal gevuros” is “oyev amo yisroel”, missing out the heh in oyHev.November 13, 2018 9:31 am at 9:31 am #1621929
It says המדקדק ק”ש באותיותה מצננין לו את הגהנם whoever watches out to pronounce krias shema properly, the gehanim will be cooled off for him.
Explains the Beis Yosef that he does things out of the ordinary, so Hashem also does things out of the ordinary as the gehinam is usually hot.November 13, 2018 9:37 am at 9:37 am #1621939Neville ChaimBerlinParticipant
I think the OP meant words where you actually mix up the letters or something. The trend of pronouncing the ayin the same as an aleph is so mainstream I don’t see the point of mentioning it as a “mistake.” It’s about 100 years too late to try to fix that.
I used to say “nigdol” in the lamnazeiach mizmor l’david every morning. Then, there was another one of these threads on the CR where are poster named papa bar abba mentioned he had made that mistake for years. That caused me to look in the siddur and realize that it’s actually nidgol and I had been saying it wrongly as well.November 13, 2018 9:37 am at 9:37 am #1621940
See the SA O”CH 61 and 62:1November 13, 2018 10:29 am at 10:29 am #1621999DrYiddParticipant
often people say/sing beterem kol, yitzeer nivrah as opposed to beterem, kol yitzeer nivrah. pure kefirah sung with gustohNovember 13, 2018 11:07 am at 11:07 am #1622006
You want apikursus? How about Boruch hu Elokeinu shebaranu lichvodo. That means we created Him C”v. Should be Sheb’ra’anu, that he created us for his honor.
And many medakdekim will pronounce the word nih’ye with a sheva nach in the middle, as a two syllable word, not as was mentioned higher up this thread. NO change in teitch there.
Or how about those that say “asher kiddyshanu,” There is a chirik chaser under the Kuf and a sheva na under the daled; not the opposite.November 13, 2018 11:07 am at 11:07 am #1622008
To explain more, the gehinam is being cooled off because he does things against his nature, so Hashem also does things against its nature.
The sea split against its nature because Yosef escaped the wife of Potifar against his nature.November 13, 2018 11:45 am at 11:45 am #1622083cherrybimParticipant
It’s not Moshiach Tzidkecha; it’s Meshiach Tzidkecha
It’s not Hodu Al Eretz Vshamayim; it’s Hodo Al Eretz Vshamayim
It’s not Vtzadkeinu Bemishpot; it’s Vtzadkeinu BamishpotNovember 13, 2018 12:48 pm at 12:48 pm #1622096
As I was educated in this, I will give a little lesson for those who were not.
There are open and closed syllables. An over syllable can be extented forever, whereas a closed syllable can not. A closed syllable is either closed by shvo noch silent or a degash chazak which comes at the end of the syllable. There is also a dagesh kal in the beginning of a syllable in letters בגד כפת which after letters אהוי is omitted. There two kind of vowels, nekudos tenuah gedolos which have open syllables according the Magen Avraham O’CH 61 the siman is פתוחי חותם, a chirik followed by a yud, malipum a vov with a dot in the middle, tzere, cholem a vov with a dot on top and kometz. The rest are tenuah ketanos which have closed syllables. A shvo no follows a tenuah gedolah and a shvo noch a tenuah ketano. A letter having a degash chazak with a shvo, will be a shvo no. If above rules are violated the stress will be on it.November 13, 2018 12:49 pm at 12:49 pm #1622110
Thank you midwestener for pointing that out. When we say it fast, we can make the mistake and not pronounce שבראנו correctly.November 13, 2018 1:08 pm at 1:08 pm #1622126
I forgot to define a degash chazak. It is like having duplicate letters in which the degash resides one with a shvo noch and the other with vowel on the letter.November 13, 2018 1:50 pm at 1:50 pm #1622154besalelParticipant
Here are the most egregious ones I find most often (other than the first pasuk of k”sh as stated above):
Asher Baranu Lichvodo (see midwesterner above) (changes meaning from who created us to who we created)
Lishnei Ufur (as opposed to Lisheinei Ufur) in the second bruchu (changes from sleepers in the dust to two pieces of dust)
Hodoo al Eretz Veshumayim as opposed to Hoddo al eretz veshumayim (in psukei dezimra) (changes from his glory is over the heaven and earth to praise for heaven and earth)
Ki Lo CHAlu rachamecha instead of Ki Lo chaLU rachamecha (in modim) (changes meaning from because your mercy never ends to because your mercy never takes effect)November 13, 2018 2:03 pm at 2:03 pm #1622172aishet choverParticipant
midwesterner: Did you mean shva nach in your last line since chirik chaser is a tenua ketana? (Kid-shanu)
laskern: What about melupam vav as first letter in a word- is the shva after it na or nach? (uvchol)November 13, 2018 2:03 pm at 2:03 pm #1622169
I was unclear in saying an open syllable can be extended forever, so I will give an example the difference between רבי and רבים. The first is open and the second is closed. There is no closure in the length of pronounciation whereas in the second is closed by the ם. Also, since it is closed it violates the rule that a tenuah gedolah should be an open syllabe, so the stress is on it.November 13, 2018 2:35 pm at 2:35 pm #1622193
aishet chover, this is an argument, as I understand, between the GRA who holds it is a shvo noch and others.November 13, 2018 2:35 pm at 2:35 pm #1622195
yes there is an extra י in וייראו, plus the ר is a שבא נעNovember 13, 2018 2:35 pm at 2:35 pm #1622197
yes there is an extra י in וייראו, plus the ר is a שבא נע.
VASHEM SHAMAYIM ASA. the word VASHEM is pronounced VA-DOI…not VA-A-DOI…November 13, 2018 2:42 pm at 2:42 pm #1622205
Aishet Chaver: There is a dagesh in the Daled of Kedishanu. That is a dagesh chazak as it is in the ayin hapoal of a binyan pi’el conjugation. A sh’va under a letter with a dagesh chazak is always na.November 13, 2018 2:42 pm at 2:42 pm #1622212
הרחמן הוא ישתבח לדור דורים ויתפאר בנו לעד ולנצח נצחים ויתהדר בנו לעד ולעולמי עולמים
both BANU are BAnu meaning: with us, not baNU meaning: they builtNovember 13, 2018 2:43 pm at 2:43 pm #1622221
הן גאלתי אתכם….להיות לכם..
its laCHEM – to you. not LAchem – breadNovember 13, 2018 3:11 pm at 3:11 pm #1622227
משה ובני ישראל לך ענו שירה.
בוקע ים לפני משה זה קלי ענו ואמרו
its aNU – they answered, not Anu – us (we)November 13, 2018 3:11 pm at 3:11 pm #1622228
to knaidlach and laskern:
You don’t necessarily need the extra yud. See for example Koheles 3:14. V’haElokim asah sheyir’u lefanav. Posuk is clearly referring to yir’ah as in fear, not r’iya as in seeing. Yet there is only one yud. Dagesh can fill the gap. and the sh’va is na.November 13, 2018 3:11 pm at 3:11 pm #1622229
i mentioned earlier about BAnu in end of bentching.
in the regular way of singing the bentching its pronounced baNu in both. but as i said earlier it has a different meaning. (im sure you are singing it now lol)November 13, 2018 3:24 pm at 3:24 pm #1622241
mitwestener. thank you for pointing it out.November 13, 2018 3:33 pm at 3:33 pm #1622246WinnieThePoohParticipant
I know it’s not exactly davening, but is it “dizban abba b’srei zuzai” or “dizaben abba b’srei zuzai, chad gadya, chad gadya”? I’ve seen/heard both versions.November 13, 2018 4:33 pm at 4:33 pm #1622543
WinnieThePooh, I can personally confirm that I was bought, not sold, and thus the correct pronunciation is “dizvan”.
ChadGadyaNovember 13, 2018 4:33 pm at 4:33 pm #1622533
However, a shuruk, also known as a kubutz (the three diagonal dots underneath) can sometimes be a tenuoh gedoloh as well, in lieu of the melopum, as in the word mezuzos in the shema. The clue is that it is an unstressed open syllable.
A chirik without a yod can also sometimes be a tenuoh gedoloh. This occurs for example when the word “im” in a posuk has a cantillation mark, as opposed to being hyphenated (makaf). This is similar to the difference between “es” and “eis”. For example in hallel “im nedivim im nedivei amo” – the first im is hyphenated and is a tenuoh ketanoh, while the second is accented and is a tenuoh gedoloh, and should properly be pronounced “eem” – slightly longer than “im”.November 15, 2018 10:58 am at 10:58 am #1624140MenoParticipant
HoDO al eretz v’shamayim
HOdu al eretz v’shamayimNovember 15, 2018 11:22 am at 11:22 am #1624165
Meno, mentioned above by besalel.November 15, 2018 12:46 pm at 12:46 pm #1624190
Outside of davenen we find the Rashi on ורחל באה מן הצאן the pronounciation in the beginning or the end changes the meaning, where the Even Ezra clearly explains that the beginning is past and the end is current.November 15, 2018 12:49 pm at 12:49 pm #1624212MenoParticipant
So here’s another:
Did anyone say that one yet?November 15, 2018 2:59 pm at 2:59 pm #1624286
Meno, mentioned in SA O’CH 61:17
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