Is there any difference between a religion and a cult?

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  • #2076916
    Chaylev Halyah
    Participant

    @Yserbius123 and Reb Eliezer,
    to say that religion doesn’t have consequences is LITTERALLY the dumbest thing you could say:
    throughout history ALL religions, including Judaism had – and WILL have soon – MAJOR consequences for dissenters – something a lot of ppl here might not be so happy about

    #2076917
    Chaylev Halyah
    Participant

    and the truth is that ALL MAN MADE religions started as cults 100%

    The ONLY difference between one and the other is that G-D HAS a true WILL –
    once you find that TRUE WILL – you will know the difference between man made CULTS which became respected religions over time – and the true WILL of G-D will can AND will have major consequences for those who don’t follow it (if they are supposed to…..)

    And while there SHOULD be discussion about the what the TRUE will is, there should NOT be discussion about if it matters or not, once it is proven to be true.

    #2076938
    huju
    Participant

    To ujm: Yes, Christianity and Islam resembled cults when founded and grew into religions. In the earliest times of Christianity, you had to be Jewish to join.

    #2076952
    ujm
    Participant

    huju: Perhaps if Janet Reno didn’t send in the tanks, had David Koresh been given some more time, the Branch Davidians, like their Christian brothers, would have evolved from cult to religion.

    #2077068
    ready now
    Participant

    Religions other than Yiddishkeit(the true one) are all cults, please try to understand.

    #2081673
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    It is surprising to me that so many people struggle with this. Cults and religions work on the same wave length, but I’m opposite directions. The wave length in this instance, is self awareness. The cult equates awareness of the self with awareness of the cult. Whereas religion promotes awareness of the individual separate from awareness of the religion.

    The difference plays out when the individual is required to make their own choices. A cult member will think how does my choice reflect on the cult. A religious person thinks how do my actions reflect on me.

    It has nothing to do with true origins or group think. The truth can be used as a tool to negate self awareness. And group think can be harnessed to promote individual choice.

    #2082047
    ready now
    Participant

    Other religions-not the true Yiddishkeit- are ALL CULTS, and have become so-called ‘respected’ only in their cultist adherents’ minds, they are all cults and if you can’t see that, your conception of truth is damaged and distorted.

    #2082076
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Ready,

    If you are really being truthful, why would you care so much about the meaning of the word cult or religion? Why would I need to understand anything? In the event that I’m wrong, I would just be uncovering the truth. Why do you write ‘that my conception of the truth is off’?

    You make it seen like you have cult-like beliefs. That your views become more true when more people agree with you. It does not work that way. Truth is toe only thing that makes itself be. You can’t have artificial truths. While we can really believe in artificial beliefs.

    The Torah is not even based on certain beliefs.It can all be learned from within itself. There is nothing in Judaism that requires us to advance a certain belief, against better evidence. [Though of course in actuality we are constantly being called upon to stand up for the truth of Torah over temporal thought.]

    #2082090
    ready now
    Participant

    my post was a general reply to several posters. btw coffeeroom/topic/is-there-any-difference-between-a-religion-and-a-cult… that is why distinctions ie definitions are important.

    Judaism has the smallest numbers in the world, so numbers do not give weight to truth.
    belief in artificial beliefs is idolatry
    emuna is essential in Judaism

    #2082185
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    The definition given for a cult makes it clear. Cult – a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object. Obviously, Judaism does not fit this definition.

    #2082200
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Emunah as in assumed beliefs that are leveraged by cults against self awareness, have little place in Judaism. Some people think Judaism is supposed to work like a cult. They are completely wrong.

    #2082210
    ready now
    Participant

    Emunah is essential in Yiddishkeit, please use easily understood language, as some statements seem contradictory/unintelligible, please.
    Minim are cults.

    #2082222
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Most minim throughout history were solitary individuals. How could there be any cult aspect to that?

    Emunah is one [the first!] Mitzva. Take it easy. One can be a strong Jew with a weak emunah.

    #2082247
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Please explain bleib צ״ע u’mgeit veiter

    #2082282
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Reb Eliezer,

    There can be a cult that venerates an idea or a cause. Some Jews use cult practices in Judaism.

    #2082285
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Coffee,

    I thought I explained it well. Above #2081673 Yserbius #2076490 as well.

    #2082307
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Nomesorah,

    I don’t follow

    Doesn’t that show that one shouldn’t think for themselves and there are certain things you can’t question

    #2082447
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Coffee,

    What would you like explained?

    #2082507
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    I don’t see how those comments have anything to do with mine

    #2082520
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    What did you want explained? #2082247 I’m not sure. Maybe I missed the point of that post.

    #2082583
    ready now
    Participant

    ‘However, each nation continued to make its own gods and to set them up in the cult places which had been made by the people of Samaria; each nation [set them up] in the towns in which it lived’- from II Kings 17:29

    #2082607
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    The word is Beis HaBamos. Which lends itself to what I posted. No idea how it would help your dogma.

    #2082627
    ready now
    Participant

    -its own gods=idolatry
    cult that venerates an idea or a cause- they all do, they invent or choose their own gods instead of the ONE TRUE GOD

    #2082656
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Inviting a god has nothing to do with a cult.

    #2082687
    ready now
    Participant

    INVENT NOT INVITE!!! or choose their own gods instead of the ONE TRUE GOD
    yes, all false gods are invented or designated and so invented as false gods to belligerently worship, so inventing by designation is a real thing and has a lot to do with cults.

    #2082723
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    “What did you want explained? #2082247 I’m not sure. Maybe I missed the point of that post.“

    The point was that some things we have to accept even though we have questions on it (sounds a little like blind faith to me)

    #2082797
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    I agree that some things we just have to accept. Whether out of convenience or blindness. But I’m not sure what concept I should accept. This is just defining terms. I would rather admit that Judaism is a cult, than lie about it. And if I do not know, I don’t know.

    #2083096
    ready now
    Participant

    Judaism is not a cult, the Torah defines what exactly is a cult.

    #2083133
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Ready,

    Why do you say that Judaism is not a cult? And where do you see in the Torah the definition of a cult?

    #2083136
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Ready now,

    If a goy would say their religion isn’t a cult because their holy book defined a cult and they weren’t that does that make them not a cult?

    #2083156
    ready now
    Participant

    A cult is based on lies.
    minim are cults-belief in different entities other than Hashem, as supposedly having powers.

    #2083214
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Josephus details cult like groups that were based on true beliefs.

    #2083230
    ready now
    Participant

    some may have originally been based on true beliefs that were then forgotten and became idolatry, and If anyone or a group, changes any aspect of the Torah or of the Seven Noachide laws it is then denying Hashem, so they are also minim.

    #2084645
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Ready,

    There was no idol worship allowed among the Esennes. [I think I have the right cult name.] Changing the Torah is not the same as denying Hashem. And neither has anything to do with the definition of a cult.

    #2084663
    ready now
    Participant

    ‘one who changes even one letter of Torah is as if he denied the whole Torah’ from Rambam

    Devorim 4.2 ‘ You shall not add anything to what I command you or take anything away from it’- the Torah. Yes cults change Torah to suit themselves, they disrespect Hashem.

    The ess;;;ines, collective ownership, communism, theft, not Judaism.
    etc etc
    We are not permitted to study cults, other religions, other philosophies

    #2084824
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Ready,

    What we are permitted to study or not, still does not define a cult. Most cults never heard of the Torah. True beliefs and cults are not mutually exclusive. And true belief and Judaism are not the same thing.

    #2085084
    ready now
    Participant

    .We are not permitted to study cults, other religions, other philosophies-that is a fact derived from Torah
    ‘make no mention of the names of other gods; they shall not be heard on your lips.’Vayikra 23.13

    ‘Most cults never heard of the Torah’- we don’t know that for sure, but the cults, all cults are still forbidden.
    True beliefs exclude cults.
    Judaism is the only true belief. Torah emes.

    #2085239
    huju
    Participant

    Quite a few commenters seem to know – or think they know – a lot about Xianity. And some of them warn against learning about Xianity. I think a lot of commenters don’t know what they are talking about.

    And, yes, Judaism is the one true religion, but the other religions are still religions, and some of their teachings are consistent with Torah.

    #2085417
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Ready,

    1) If the cult in question contains no idols than that prohibition cannot apply at all.

    2) One can study a cult to see if it contains idol worship.

    3) Even with idols, there are exceptions to this prohibition.

    4) How would anyone know that a cult contains idols, if they could not study it?

    5) I still do not see any reason why you insist cults are forbidden.

    6) How do true beliefs exclude cults?

    7) How do we know that a cults beliefs are not true?

    8) How does the true belief reach us more that it reaches a cult.

    “Judaism is the one true belief.”

    How do you know that. And how can it be explained as such.

    #2085477
    ready now
    Participant

    There are some people here who think they can study other religions and including qristianiy!
    What misled individuals they are, teetering on the brink, disobeying Hashem, thinking there are no consequences, damaging their inner selves- and likely their outer selves, AND also misleading other people!
    Some people even allow some idols! Gevalt! No!
    They forgot to read their own real Holy book, to see that cults are banned, there is no suggestion of any kind to check out anything other than authentic Yiddishkeit.
    They are trolls, get them off the www, now!

    All cults twist the truth which relates to how they perceive the One and only Supreme power, they change in their own minds to another object their appropriation of the Ultimate Power and deny Hashem’s power, even if they deceitfully call in Hashem’s name, despite Hashem’s Power being absolute, They are idolators and cultists, the same thing.

    You trolls, as if you were born yesterday, get a grip, get a conscience.
    Shut the ‘innocent’ questions!

    #2086353
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Ready,

    Studying other religions may be a waste, but it is at times permitted. And nobody said they are studying other religions. They were mentioning what the seforim said about Christianity.

    Please source your claim ‘that cults are banned’. Your last attempt was a distortion.

    How could you make such broad statements about cults without lying or having studyied them? Make up your own mind first.

    #2086462
    tunaisafish
    Participant

    yes but they do share alot of things in common.

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