October 24, 2023 2:03 pm at 2:03 pm #2233926
Don’t hold your breath,
The Gaza invasion won’t happen.
The world realized it isn’t worth it and now propaganda is showing Hamas is merciful. I think we realized after the war in Ukraine everyone is no longer truly invested in war, but providing grift to military contractors. The complexity of combat has reached a point a long term stalemate is inevitable.
I guess we’ll go back to the regular programming of they are bad but there’s nothing we can do….
Shame on everyone, bunch of cowards….October 24, 2023 4:41 pm at 4:41 pm #2234159DovidRichman613Participant
Are you retarded? Israel is going to, likely, have to fight a war on two-fronts. Considering they were sending supplies and ammunition to Ukraine (as were more Western countries) they need time to re-up the stockpile. Not to mention, Hamas has set up an intricate tunnel system that needs to be destroyed and the best way to do that is to gather intelligence, use airstrikes to take out what they can and then systematically go in there and destroy them one by one. This is demonstratable more difficult, as I’m sure you know, they are holding hostages under these tunnels. Not to mention, Joe Biden has requested from Bibi to allow them more time to free the MANY hostages who from a national perspective are from many different countries (not a good look for anyone).
You clearly know nothing about warfare, or the amount of time it takes to train reservists, gather a stockpile of weapons and ammunition, make sure we prevent losing AS MANY SOILDERS AS POSSIBLE (with Hashem’s help it should be zero) and overall make sure when we do go in there we do it in the smartest way possible, no offense you clearly are a special needs individual and I should take rachmana on you for calling your brothers and sisters cowards during a time of war. You idiots need to spend less time on chat boards and more time on your own pathetic lives.October 24, 2023 7:08 pm at 7:08 pm #2234208akupermaParticipant
If Israel gets all the hostages back, alive and well, it might be worth it for Israel to avoid having to level Gaza and schecht its population (no other way to do it). They can insist on a rigid ban on Palestinians entering Israel, engage in targeted killings of Palestinian leaders, and annexation of all West Bank settlements – but resign themselves to having to go back to the old system of reserves doing over a month per year, until age 55. Israel was, and probably still is, unprepared for a full scale war, which for Israel would be an “all or nothing” proposition (the “nothing” is a Judenrein Eretz Yisrael. They have assumed they would be dealing with terrorists and occasional rockets – not a full scale war on the model of World War II in which one side wins by permanently eliminating the other.
Israel also has to consider its own internal divisions, that in the United States there are strong blocks of isolationists and anti-Semites (separate blocks who hate each other), and when taken in a global context (including Eastern Europe, Iran, and East Asia) the Middle East would be single theater of world war that the “Free world” is hardly prepared for.October 24, 2023 10:12 pm at 10:12 pm #2234224
I’m a bit surprised, you usually have logical points, but that was anything but. If we get the hostages back, does that erase the almost 1500 murdered Israelis?
If this ends with anything but Hamas’ annihilation, Israel will be the joke of the Middle East, with zero deterrence to speak of.October 24, 2023 10:12 pm at 10:12 pm #2234225
And if Israel isn’t ready for a ground war, then it needs to do whatever is necessary to get ready.October 25, 2023 9:29 am at 9:29 am #2234305jdf007Participant
But what is the rest of the world going to do? The ones who have “protestors” marching down their own streets, ripping and burning the host nations flags and destroying buildings and attacking people along the way? Like Germany/Cologne on new years day, nothing? And cover it up that it didn’t happen to save everyones jobs? Will they continue to do nothing as the attacks continue to occur on their soil after this specific anti-western group is emboldened from their marches? How many Manchesters will England allow? France? It would be nice if it wasn’t put upon a small subset of Jews to physically save the world for the world via fighting.October 25, 2023 10:04 am at 10:04 am #2234342
It’s easy to sit 6000 miles away from the action and criticize, The IDF knows what they are doing, want to help? say a couple of kappitilch of thilimOctober 25, 2023 11:55 am at 11:55 am #2234360smerelParticipant
There was never any chance of a massive ground invasion last week or the week before. The amount of traps, hidden tunnels in front and in back, the amount of Hamas training for this battle vs. the Israeli amount of planning etc. would have made it impossible. Even when the news was saying again and again that it is imminent I knew it would not happen then.
For the ground war to start Israel needs (1) a weakened Hamas infrastructure from the bombings and weakened Hamas fighters from the siege (2) Hamas can not be on alert like they certainly were over the first two weeks (3)intelligence needs to be discovered (4) serious planning needs to be done. Even then they probably won’t do an all out invasion. They will probably try to locate specific targets to destroy that can’t be destroyed from the air and retreat right afterwards.October 25, 2023 11:24 pm at 11:24 pm #2234493GadolhadorahParticipant
For the first 10 days, the nightly coverage on CNN and CNBC was almost 100% pro-Israel, showing the horrific aftermath of the Hamas attacks….late last week, after the Hospital bombing (caused by an errant Hamas rocket) the coverage pivoted to 1:1 videos showing the “suffering of innocent Palestinians in Gaza and interviews with relief organizations predicting a catastrophe unless Israel stopped the bombing and allowed aid to enter. While there is obviously a need for military preparations, Israel is going to quickly lose the “PR war” if the delay in a military response lingers much longer. I suspect they know this so have to assume it is a risk they are willing to take.October 26, 2023 1:22 am at 1:22 am #2234431BY1212Participant
The military ‘experts’ of Israel were caught with their pants down and showed the IDF to be an horrifically incompetent organization.
Sabotage would indeed be a more reassuring explanation for the incomprehensible failures on so many levels that made the טבח of Simchas Torah possible rather than the utter colossal incompetence explanation.
This incompetence was demonstrated back in the second Lebanon war as well.
Who even says the IDF has the capacity to wage a proper war in Gaza in which many American military experts are saying will be very difficult to achieve victory for any army.
I doubt the idf/knesset brass can handle the international pressure that will rain down like a mabul once said attack commences.
If u r so confident that they can, you really have not been paying attention at all.
The worst part is the IDF still places pr and Nazi lives above the lives of its own soldiers. IDF soldiers are cannon fodder for Israel’s super duper pr behemoth 🤪.
Until the army is fixed i.e. complete sacking and replacing of the upper echelons and 115 replaced mk’s it is best Israel not goninto to Gaza as going into Gaza now would be like Great Britain fifhting the Germans with Neville Chamberlain as PM, Defense minister, Chief of staff and every other significant position of influence.
Sorry to burst your bubble but seeing that the unchecked Arab riots across Israel of 2020 and Shemini Atzeres 2023 has not opened your eyes, you really need to wake up, this is where we are today.October 26, 2023 1:46 pm at 1:46 pm #2234568Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
There are no easy solutions here. Hopefully Israelis (both IDF and politicians) find the right choice/ trade-off between a need to retaliate harshly and a danger of loss of lives and escalation… one thing people should avoid is pushing decision-makers into a public-opinion boxes in either direction. Hopefully, they make decisions based on sober analysis rather than emotional/political pressure.
For example, it is easy to say that harsh response will regenerate deterrence (at a tremendous cost). But, maybe, a limited operation showing destructive capabilities combined with stronger allied support, will also work? Would someone be pressured to go on offensive to placate supporters or silence opposition? Let’s think how to reduce this pressure.October 26, 2023 1:47 pm at 1:47 pm #2234645abooseinakParticipant
Everyone has good points here but we need to understand that this situation is extremely difficult for Israel. On one hand they need to figure out best way to start the ground op ( minimizing traps , mines , tunnels etc ) but they also need to consider that there is much more than just revenge at stake … we are inches away from escalating this into a global war with 1-3 additional fronts getting involved. We would much rather have USA involved when that happens so waiting a bit on their request makes sense. There is also another thing happening here , they are under siege and wearing hamas down , so in that sense , a delay works in their favor! Albeit the PR war works against them at that point. It’s a chess game guysOctober 26, 2023 1:47 pm at 1:47 pm #2234569
Forgive me for being retarded but:
Russian influence in EY shouldn’t be ignored.
Bibi and Putin were tight until munitions were sent to Ukraine under American pressure. Oh wait now Hamas strikes…..
The 100 Billion from the US just got split up… hmmm
Everyone knows US munitions are low thanks to American oligarch grift.
The idk is a great policing force and SF capability but as an active army it’s a joke. Most IDF guys I know were never trained on pistol work…. These guys aren’t highly trained
The corrupt grifters in power want things to go back to normal, look at all the propaganda with the last hostage release painting Hamas as merciful.
Everyone wants the kettle to stop whistling because
The new context will be forgive and forget
EY as a military power is weak
The US is weaker than they admit
Conventional warfare is too complex now ( see Russia vs Ukraine)
The Iranian population is actually surprisingly pro EY and the powers that be there don’t want an over throw
Other than Russia no one is producing weapons on a WW3 scale
This will all get swept under the rug, I just feel sorry for the internal strife that will occur in Israel.
Plus look at the 4 MiG 31s flying over the Black Sea loaded with kinzhal hyper sonic missles…..us carriers don’t look so scary now do they…..
I would prefer a mass incursion but it isn’t going to happen.October 26, 2023 1:48 pm at 1:48 pm #2234641
I wish YWN would post my last comment because it was on point….
This last “incursion” was a PR stunt
If anyone on here thinks anything was going to happen, they would have thought either:
Russia was going to go nuclear and or Ukraine was going to sweep the front. Neither has happened and a lot of men have died.
This same style conflict is facing EY. There is no reason to believe they have any more technical military prowess than Ukraine or Russia. The US us and has been a limiting factor in EYs military strength, thanks to corruption.
An organic incursion would have been good while EY had the moral high ground, now you are seeing the higher ups run their hands together to get a PR play. That’s where I say cowardice lies.October 26, 2023 4:44 pm at 4:44 pm #2234806
@lostpark, what country do you live in?October 26, 2023 7:55 pm at 7:55 pm #2234830
America dude.October 26, 2023 7:59 pm at 7:59 pm #2234892Chaim87Participant
As someone pointed out above indeed this is a chess game.
1) Hostages: if we go in we risk losing them. On the other hand Hamas will never free all hostages. At most they free civilians. They will only do that in drip drip stages schleping it out for months. Then they will hold on to soldiers till every Palestinian prisoner is let go. israel will have to settle for some middle ground of maybe getting at least women and children out before any invasion. Its so tough.
2)Yes you don’t want a world war on 3 fronts and so we need to make sure the USA has our backs and do this thoughtfully in a way that doesn’t provoke Lebanon into full scale war. Maybe the answer is just a go little in at a time etc. Till they get used to it. Again tough
3) what to do with the tunnels , traps and everything else set up on the other side? You need caution.
4) You can just go in and kill 500K civillains. Right now Hamas isn’t letting them leave.
There is a thought in me that had we rolled in on day one with force they would have been unprepared even with all that planning. And we could have accomplished alot. But that assumes that we had all the troops ready and all the weapons etc. And we still would have lost alot. This day one scenario is very impractical. And so now once they had a week or 2, you need to be more cautious
Will they go in? Who knows. Ultimately the goal isn’t to go in. its to get our hostages home first and then to decimate Hamas. I think most definitely its wise not to just barge in at this pointOctober 26, 2023 9:43 pm at 9:43 pm #2234916
The number one priority is not to rescue the hostages, it is to eliminate Hamas. If the hostages are saved at the expense of that goal, then in the long run many more lives will be lost. This is the first lesson to be learnt. In the last 18 years Israel didn’t do what needed to be done to wipe out Hamas because they were afraid of losing too many lives in the process. Well, now we lost the lives anyhow, and that’s before we even got started.October 27, 2023 4:44 am at 4:44 am #2234926
@Lostpark, “America Dude” So what are you doing here? why dont you join the IDF?October 27, 2023 8:02 am at 8:02 am #2234932KuvultParticipant
Not everything needs to be said & not everything needs to be made public.
Yesterday Israeli planes bombed 250 Hamas targets & the powers that matter said nothing. If as long as Israel is talking humanitarian temporary ceasefire or waiting for ground war while people negotiates the hostages it seems Biden & others won’t complain about Israel leveling Gaza from the air.
It didn’t take long after WWII for Germans to realize how stupid they were. Hitler promised them the world but instead they ended up with a destroyed Germany, millions dead & the eternal stain of the Holocaust.
Perhaps when Palestinians see the death & destruction Hamas brought they’ll wise up & understand Hamas is not their friend or savior but another Nazi like govt that talks a good talk but on the ground makes the lives of average Palestinians miserable.
One can always hope.October 27, 2023 8:04 am at 8:04 am #2234935GadolhadorahParticipant
Israeli media have stated that some of the leaders of the Hamas October 7th attack were among the 1100 terrorists released by Netanyahu in 2011 as part of the Shalit exchange. At some point, the moral fixation on pidyon shivuim must give way to the greater moral imperative of pikuach nefesh.October 27, 2023 8:07 am at 8:07 am #2234976SACT5Participant
“Russian influence in EY shouldn’t be ignored.
Bibi and Putin were tight until munitions were sent to Ukraine under American pressure. Oh wait now Hamas strikes….”
Lostspark, that is a good point. This may also explain why Trump changed his allegiance too.
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