October 24, 2021 8:41 am at 8:41 am #2020008
Many discredit Israel’s accomplishments by saying that it’s due to America funding them. What would happen if that would end, would Israel be able to survive on it’s own or are they truly dependent on America’s funding to survive?October 24, 2021 9:03 am at 9:03 am #2020057
Why does Israel need billions of dollars in American military aid every year?October 24, 2021 9:34 am at 9:34 am #2020074philosopherParticipant
I also don’t think it’s a good idea for the US to send billions of dollars in military aid to Israel. At a time when the US is deep in debt (too much overspending by us politicians), it is not good for Israel to be taking these billions of dollars. Neither can the US afford it.October 24, 2021 9:43 am at 9:43 am #2020082
What are you guys asking? First of all I’m sure America knows what it’s doing, they aren’t just sending free money they are getting a lot in return for it. Secondly why do they need billions? Well they are in constant war and funding a constant war costs a lot of money. You do realize that when America sends money Israel is obligated to buy aircraft and weapons from America only so in a way they get their money back. Aside for the intelligence they receive from Israel as well as keeping the middle east in check so that America doesn’t have to get involved
The question is would Israel be able to survive independent of others?October 24, 2021 9:56 am at 9:56 am #2020084☕️coffee addictParticipant
“What would happen if that would end, would Israel be able to survive on it’s own or are they truly dependent on America’s funding to survive?”
Israel (and the rest of the world) is totally dependent on Hashem and Hashem only
Hashem has numerous agents to helpOctober 24, 2021 10:33 am at 10:33 am #2020090
It would be interesting though to see them totally independent and prove that Hashem is in charge and all the crying Israel hating taxpayers will be silenced finally.October 24, 2021 10:47 am at 10:47 am #2020098
CA: America is also totally dependent on Hashem. Everyone is.October 24, 2021 1:26 pm at 1:26 pm #2020158akupermaParticipant
The American (and before that “German” reparations, even if they were paid by the USA) makes things easier for Israel. On its own, the Israelis would probably have to respond more forcefully which could lead a bigger war with devastating consequence (especially if the Israelis were forced to use non-conventional weapons). The pre-Biden policies seem to have been working as more Arab countries are recognizing Israel, and the level of violence has been contained. The WOKE Democrats are likely to sabotage the movements towards peace since they want to see Israel destroyed, even if the consequence could be a mass destruction (e.g. instead of launching retaliatory raids when Gaza takes pot shots at Israeli cities, the Israelis could do to Gaze what the US did in World War II, level the cities and cause massive civilian deaths which, but result in the loss of American aid – that aid is a bribe for the Israelis not to go for a military solution).October 24, 2021 1:26 pm at 1:26 pm #2020161
“mentch tracht un got lacht”. Zionists believe in kochi veotzrm yodi, that they are the determiners of their fate and that never again will Jews be victims or rely on non Jews…
Mah asah HKBH? He made them rely almost completely on the USOctober 24, 2021 1:56 pm at 1:56 pm #2020171☕️coffee addictParticipant
Read inside the bracketsOctober 24, 2021 7:38 pm at 7:38 pm #2020245
Avira, so if the US stopped funds, what would Israel do to generate money for survival and improvak of the country?October 24, 2021 10:25 pm at 10:25 pm #2020279
Right; I am not saying that the USA should stop. This reaction is typical – criticize Israel, and people will say “what, do you want the Arabs to take over?”. This is not using analytic skills.
What I’m saying is that the situation that Israel is in is Hashem showing us that only He is in control, no matter what machinations and designs we think we have.October 24, 2021 11:28 pm at 11:28 pm #2020325
I didn’t accuse you of saying that America should cut funding. I was asking hypothetically what are some ways Israel would be able to generate high amount of money for continuation? I mean it’s bound to happen that they might be on their own sooner or later.October 26, 2021 10:38 am at 10:38 am #2020853hujuParticipant
I have often wondered what would happen to Israel if the US stopped all financial and military aid. From the responses on this thread, I know I will not find the answer on YWN.October 26, 2021 10:46 am at 10:46 am #2020855🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
Huju – not sure your point. So you thought you probably would get the answer in an anonymous chat room but now you realize you were mistaken? Or you thought we would research the data on this and present it but we didn’t so now you’re disappointed? How does this revelation affect those you feel let you down?October 26, 2021 11:36 am at 11:36 am #2020864
Syag, huju is simply attempting to convey how much wiser he is than everyone else here.October 26, 2021 11:36 am at 11:36 am #2020866
Right; sorry! Completely misread what you wroteOctober 26, 2021 1:45 pm at 1:45 pm #2020936hujuParticipant
To ujm: I do not think I am smarter than all other YWN commenters. I do think that substantially all YWN commenters are smarter than you.October 26, 2021 2:33 pm at 2:33 pm #2020952
Huju, why make personal attacks? I thought that’s supposed to be edited by the mods…
I have noticed that the mods have let personal attacks against me to go through, sometimes with a caveat at the end “normally we don’t allow personal attacks” while posting the message anywayOctober 29, 2021 1:29 pm at 1:29 pm #2022306RomainParticipant
Israel as a state doesn’t mater as there are secular
But the lives of our fellow jews living in eretz israel
Is importantOctober 29, 2021 6:11 pm at 6:11 pm #2022416
Jewish lives would be safer if the USA adopted Israel as a territory like Puerto Rico. It would have full protection, freedom for us to keep the Torah without being coerced into secularism, it would help stop a great deal of anti semitism, and a lot more.October 31, 2021 12:23 am at 12:23 am #2022454Avi KParticipant
1. It is a Torah mitzva to establish a sovereign state in Eretz Yisrael and a prohibition to give it to goyim.
2. If c”v it was American territory, it would be subject to the toeva inquisitors. Not to mention the fat that there would be complete separation of religion and state.
3. You are making the same mistake Mendelssohn made. Becoming Americans will not stop anti-Semitism. Anti-Semtism is just because we are Jews. The reasons given are just excuses.
editedOctober 31, 2021 12:26 am at 12:26 am #2022549Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
Avira > Jewish lives would be safer if the USA adopted Israel as a territory
And so would Taiwan, Ukraine, and Afghanistan … Although we have experience of inviting Pompey to help stabilize the country. You can’t deny the reality is that the Zionist project lead to a thriving Jewish economic and spiritual life in Israel. You can disagree on a lot of things with them, but facts are facts, and you need to take them into account in your theology.October 31, 2021 1:51 am at 1:51 am #2022580
AAQ – where is there an obligation to set up a government in eretz yisroel? The shalosh shevuos and decree of galus preclude that. It’s for that reason that the sefer megilas ester on the sefer hamitzvos of the rambam holds that the rambam omitted yishuv eretz yisroel because it’s not possible nowadays due to the shevuos. Tosfos, rabeinu chananel and other rishonim hold that rhere is no mitzvah at all bezman galus. The ramban, who holds that there is a chiyuv to live in eretz yisroel, does not hold that we should make governments or go en masse, as he quotes the shavuos in his maamar al hageulah.
The rivash holds that the mitzvah of vehorashtem is to own land individually, so if jews owned land under American sovereignty, we would still be mekayam yishuv eretz yisroel according to that shitah.
Even if it would be a mitzvah, it would not permit us to endanger jewish lives, both because many hold it’s not a chiyuv, and because we have no sanhedrin or king to lead us in a battle against the goyim to take over the land – rebbe akiva thought this was being realized under bar kochva, but this was not to be so – all the more so under a rasha like ben gurion.
Also, it seems pretty clear that the removal of the colossal, non-stop chilul Hashem perpetrated by the very existence of a secular , state that calls itself Jewish, would be more important than the mitzvah of yishuv eretz yisroel even if we would say that it’s a complete chiyuv, and even if we would disregard the shevuos.
This situation isn’t like the jewish monarchy in eretz yisroel in the times of tanach where we would say that losing life is part of having a country – Zionists, both secular and religious, enjoy these phantasmagorical portrayals…netanyahu is the king and meir kahanah is the navi…they fancy themselves as the soldiers of yore, “holy” etc. The descriptions the religious zionist rabbis give them make heros out of mechalelei shabbos and occasionally murderers. The state of Israel, everyone would have to agree, will need to be overhauled so much when moshiach comes that it will resemble nothing of its current self…why then would it need to be preserved at all?
If they’re a Jewish army, where is the cohen meshuach milchama? Why are there women allowed to fight (and sin) with the men?
Re, toeva issues; it wouldn’t be any worse than it already is.. Actually, to assuage the Arabs it might even be better.
As far as Israel’s success, the fact that they depend on foreign aid runs contrary to that assessment, and it is likewise irrelevant if our concern is protecting Jewish lives and removing chilul Hashem.October 31, 2021 1:53 am at 1:53 am #2022584
1. No sovereignty isn’t, prior to Moshiach.
2. The zionist government protects, defends and encourages toeiva, r”l, in their state.
The spiritual live in Eretz Yisroel, which predates the existence of the State, is despite the best efforts of the State to interfere with it.
And don’t bother with the false premise of money distributed. The money received is a) less than the communities tax burdens and b) less than the money the State distributes to secular universities.October 31, 2021 1:54 am at 1:54 am #2022585
My mistake, i wrote that i was responding to AAQ when i meant to respond to Avi – my eyes played tricks on me.
I’ll also add that Mendelssohn and his ilk believed that becoming assimilated, dropping Torah, and becoming similar to goyim would stop anti semitism. Zionists believed the flip side, that dropping Torah, becoming our own secular country with an army, would stop anti semitism, because “well show them! Never again!” Both are equally wrong. Anti semtism is from Hashem and it’s specifically designed to distance ourselves from both such machinations. The jews in yerushalayim who responded to the threat of rommel by fasting and doing teshuva, rather than take up arms, were saved, while their European counterparts who “declared war on hitler”( in the publicized words of chaim weitzman) were not. The brisker rov made this remark when yerushalim was saved; it’s not my chiddush.
AAQ – I think America would be the best bet because they have had a relationship with Israel for decades, millions of Jewish votere live there, they respect freedom of religion, and have a great strategic interest in having a foothold in the middle east.October 31, 2021 1:54 am at 1:54 am #2022586
It really is a shame when one’s Jewish identity depends on the secular state of Israels existence… What would you do if it turned the way of the Soviet union and disappeared overnight? Would you feel less Jewish, that your Jewishness has been lessened? I for one would rejoice at the answer to our prayers of “כי תעביר ממשלת זדון מין הארץ”October 31, 2021 1:57 am at 1:57 am #2022590philosopherParticipant
Avirah, the US government is spiraling out of control, the people are becoming dehumanized. If you think we are guaranteed safe here, think again. I hope Moshiach will come before the US collapses, because those days are imminent.October 31, 2021 10:08 am at 10:08 am #2022611
Philosopher; I agree it’s unstable, but i think it’s the best bet and the surest hishtadlus oriented solution to both the safety of the yidden there, and the removal of the aforementioned constant, 24/7 chilul Hashem that has been going on since 1948.November 1, 2021 12:07 am at 12:07 am #2022989SomedayParticipant
If not for Israel, the USA would have to establish their own military base in the Middle East, which would cost the US far more than aid they give to Israel. The US has a bargain here in helping keep their ally and “always available to be a USA military base” secure.
Btw, I am in no way a Zionist, I recognize galus including in Israel, and at the same time, I of course want whatever will keep all Yidden safe.
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