Israel on its own

Why does Israel need billions of dollars in American military aid every year?

The American (and before that “German” reparations, even if they were paid by the USA) makes things easier for Israel. On its own, the Israelis would probably have to respond more forcefully which could lead a bigger war with devastating consequence (especially if the Israelis were forced to use non-conventional weapons). The pre-Biden policies seem to have been working as more Arab countries are recognizing Israel, and the level of violence has been contained. The WOKE Democrats are likely to sabotage the movements towards peace since they want to see Israel destroyed, even if the consequence could be a mass destruction (e.g. instead of launching retaliatory raids when Gaza takes pot shots at Israeli cities, the Israelis could do to Gaze what the US did in World War II, level the cities and cause massive civilian deaths which, but result in the loss of American aid – that aid is a bribe for the Israelis not to go for a military solution).

Ujm,

Read inside the brackets

Right; I am not saying that the USA should stop. This reaction is typical – criticize Israel, and people will say “what, do you want the Arabs to take over?”. This is not using analytic skills.

What I’m saying is that the situation that Israel is in is Hashem showing us that only He is in control, no matter what machinations and designs we think we have.

I have often wondered what would happen to Israel if the US stopped all financial and military aid. From the responses on this thread, I know I will not find the answer on YWN.

Syag, huju is simply attempting to convey how much wiser he is than everyone else here.

To ujm: I do not think I am smarter than all other YWN commenters. I do think that substantially all YWN commenters are smarter than you.

Israel as a state doesn’t mater as there are secular
But the lives of our fellow jews living in eretz israel
Is important

Avirah,

1. It is a Torah mitzva to establish a sovereign state in Eretz Yisrael and a prohibition to give it to goyim.

2. If c”v it was American territory, it would be subject to the toeva inquisitors. Not to mention the fat that there would be complete separation of religion and state.

3. You are making the same mistake Mendelssohn made. Becoming Americans will not stop anti-Semitism. Anti-Semtism is just because we are Jews. The reasons given are just excuses.

edited

AAQ – where is there an obligation to set up a government in eretz yisroel? The shalosh shevuos and decree of galus preclude that. It’s for that reason that the sefer megilas ester on the sefer hamitzvos of the rambam holds that the rambam omitted yishuv eretz yisroel because it’s not possible nowadays due to the shevuos. Tosfos, rabeinu chananel and other rishonim hold that rhere is no mitzvah at all bezman galus. The ramban, who holds that there is a chiyuv to live in eretz yisroel, does not hold that we should make governments or go en masse, as he quotes the shavuos in his maamar al hageulah.

The rivash holds that the mitzvah of vehorashtem is to own land individually, so if jews owned land under American sovereignty, we would still be mekayam yishuv eretz yisroel according to that shitah.

Even if it would be a mitzvah, it would not permit us to endanger jewish lives, both because many hold it’s not a chiyuv, and because we have no sanhedrin or king to lead us in a battle against the goyim to take over the land – rebbe akiva thought this was being realized under bar kochva, but this was not to be so – all the more so under a rasha like ben gurion.

Also, it seems pretty clear that the removal of the colossal, non-stop chilul Hashem perpetrated by the very existence of a secular , state that calls itself Jewish, would be more important than the mitzvah of yishuv eretz yisroel even if we would say that it’s a complete chiyuv, and even if we would disregard the shevuos.

This situation isn’t like the jewish monarchy in eretz yisroel in the times of tanach where we would say that losing life is part of having a country – Zionists, both secular and religious, enjoy these phantasmagorical portrayals…netanyahu is the king and meir kahanah is the navi…they fancy themselves as the soldiers of yore, “holy” etc. The descriptions the religious zionist rabbis give them make heros out of mechalelei shabbos and occasionally murderers. The state of Israel, everyone would have to agree, will need to be overhauled so much when moshiach comes that it will resemble nothing of its current self…why then would it need to be preserved at all?

If they’re a Jewish army, where is the cohen meshuach milchama? Why are there women allowed to fight (and sin) with the men?

Re, toeva issues; it wouldn’t be any worse than it already is.. Actually, to assuage the Arabs it might even be better.

As far as Israel’s success, the fact that they depend on foreign aid runs contrary to that assessment, and it is likewise irrelevant if our concern is protecting Jewish lives and removing chilul Hashem.

My mistake, i wrote that i was responding to AAQ when i meant to respond to Avi – my eyes played tricks on me.

I’ll also add that Mendelssohn and his ilk believed that becoming assimilated, dropping Torah, and becoming similar to goyim would stop anti semitism. Zionists believed the flip side, that dropping Torah, becoming our own secular country with an army, would stop anti semitism, because “well show them! Never again!” Both are equally wrong. Anti semtism is from Hashem and it’s specifically designed to distance ourselves from both such machinations. The jews in yerushalayim who responded to the threat of rommel by fasting and doing teshuva, rather than take up arms, were saved, while their European counterparts who “declared war on hitler”( in the publicized words of chaim weitzman) were not. The brisker rov made this remark when yerushalim was saved; it’s not my chiddush.

AAQ – I think America would be the best bet because they have had a relationship with Israel for decades, millions of Jewish votere live there, they respect freedom of religion, and have a great strategic interest in having a foothold in the middle east.

Avirah, the US government is spiraling out of control, the people are becoming dehumanized. If you think we are guaranteed safe here, think again. I hope Moshiach will come before the US collapses, because those days are imminent.

If not for Israel, the USA would have to establish their own military base in the Middle East, which would cost the US far more than aid they give to Israel. The US has a bargain here in helping keep their ally and “always available to be a USA military base” secure.

Btw, I am in no way a Zionist, I recognize galus including in Israel, and at the same time, I of course want whatever will keep all Yidden safe.