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Tagged: Israel Gov
- This topic has 24 replies, 12 voices, and was last updated 3 months, 2 weeks ago by ☕️coffee addict.
February 11, 2023 10:59 pm at 10:59 pm #2165022
Give him a chance he has been there 5 minutes
Look at what he has achieved in such a short
700 Police raiding and a arresting a crime syndicate
Advocating the cancellation of citizenship of a terrorist
Understand an Arab Israeli terrorists receives
medical education pension benefits CRAZY
when he goes to Ha Habayis or Sheikh Jarrah
It incites violence which is objectionable
One has to take the package
Let’s hope he focuses on the important work
and stop petty nonsenseFebruary 12, 2023 11:08 am at 11:08 am #2165122
Who knows if the amount of Jews he endangers by going on har habayis is more or less than the amount he’ll save with counterterrorism…and who knows how many jews will be endangered due to backlash over extreme counterterrorism..
I like how he’s pro yiddishkeit in other ways, far more charedi-friendly than his predecessors who pretended to be frum; but at what cost?
Can shas or rabbi thau have an influence on him to keep his mouth shut and mellow out?February 12, 2023 7:37 pm at 7:37 pm #2165209
I’m not a big fan of Netanyahu but I do respect his political skills. He deliberately allowed BG to go up on har habayis early last month just as the government was being formed to let him score some political points and deflate the issue. Now that Netanyahu is trying to establish ties with the Saudis, ANY such provocation would be stopped in its tracks and BG would be squashed like a bug. The Saudis have been relatively quiet about Israel’s forceful responses to Palestinian terrorists BUT if Israeli politicians provoked a violent confrontation on Har Habayis, the Saudis would immediately cut off any further discussions with Netanyahu on commercial “normalization” under some variation of the Abraham Accords.February 12, 2023 7:42 pm at 7:42 pm #2165227ujmParticipant
When Ariel Sharon went there, he incited an intifada.February 12, 2023 11:59 pm at 11:59 pm #2165238
the arabs in EY are wicked dangerous bloodthirsty שונאי ישראל. the entire population must be permanently expelled as per the halachic obligation of pikuach nefesh.February 13, 2023 12:09 am at 12:09 am #2165249amiricanyeshivishParticipant
Do you beleive Sharon or BG have the power to cause the death of 3 heiligeh neshamos?
What became of us? Are we forgetting who runs the world? Can some political people be goizer chaim or moves?
Let us stop projecting on others when we to do teshuva!!!February 13, 2023 12:35 am at 12:35 am #2165261
American, just as we guard our houses with maakos, we guard our safety in galus according to the teachings of chazal, who tell us that we are to keep a low profile, and that angering goyim causes Jews to dieFebruary 13, 2023 3:26 pm at 3:26 pm #2165425
Those who advocate efforts to “expel” the entire Palestinian population (other than known or suspected terrorists) from EY are delusional. It will not happen under even most right-wing (nationalist) government. And those who seek to promote Kahane type terrorist actions against the general Arab population with that end in mind are likely to face similar outcomes. Netanyahu seems to understand the limits of how far to take the “collective punishment” strategy and will not hesitate to squash the right-wing zealots in his own coalition who seek to act beyond those limits.February 13, 2023 4:53 pm at 4:53 pm #2165525
@Gadolhadorah: I do not seek to promote “Kahane type terrorist actions against the general Arab population.” Meir Kahane himself was an american liberal whos ideology/platform could be viewed as potentially problematic with the torah, but I’m not getting into that right now…
I am only advocating for the expulsion of the arabs living in areas where they are close to a populated Jewish presence (like mixed jewish-arab neighborhoods, Jerusalem, certain areas of the WB..etc.) because they are a known and dangerous public menace.
sorry but I follow the Torah and Hashem. פקוח נפש for the yidden in the land comes first.February 13, 2023 6:52 pm at 6:52 pm #2165591
We live in the current reality where millions of Arabs are residing in these communities . We are not living in the times of Moshe, Yehoshua, Gideon, Shimshon and Dovid Hamelech.
Has Hashem appeared to you and revealed his will that פקוח נפש demands the expulsion of the arabs living in areas where they are close to a populated Jewish presence ?
If not, don’t quote Him.
Which Torah Giant of today paskened that פקוח נפש demands the expulsion of the arabs living in areas where they are close to a populated Jewish presence ?
If none, don’t quote the Torah.
Do you realize the פקוח נפש repercussions of such actions ?
Do you realize that all the Jews in the world would suffer the consequences of such actions?
Do you realize Israeli’s are living in the same Golus as the diaspora Jews?February 13, 2023 9:24 pm at 9:24 pm #2165603ujmParticipant
Jack: Excellent comment.February 13, 2023 10:19 pm at 10:19 pm #2165604
Squirrel on 2/12 11:59 PM “The arabs in EY are wicked dangerous bloodthirsty שונאי ישראל. the ENTIRE population must be permanently expelled..”
Squirrel on 2/13 4:53 PM ” I am only advocating for the expulsion of the arabs living in areas where they are close to a populated Jewish presence..”
Thanks for clarifying what you really meant. I strongly disagree with BOTH of your stated positions of collective punishment by deportation of either ALL or just some of the Palestinians living within EY. As Jackk clearly notes, even attempting such a mindless and draconian action would trigger global attacks on yidden beyond anything you could imagine.February 13, 2023 10:23 pm at 10:23 pm #2165610
–> that is the problem. we should be trying our best to FULLY SECURE our communities and not allow these arab terrorists who openly call for our death to be living next to our sons and daughters. if Moshe, Yehoshua, Gideon, Shimshon and Dovid Hamelech were running EY today they would totally not accept the current security situation.
–> obviously it must be done in a swift and responsible manner, taking into consideration the safety of all Jews living in EY and beyond. part of the problem today is that it is difficult to start because of such dangers (feedback loop) but the solution isn’t to do nothing and let the arabs continuously kill us while celebrating our deaths, it is to start to chip away as much as we can and enhance security manifold… especially in Yerushalayim where there are hundreds and thousands of arabs who hate us living in the city, and in mixed arab-jewish cities like Lod (remember the riots/pogrom from a year 1/2 ago?)
–> Yes it is obviously פקוח נפש, and we are obligated to use our brains when looking at the world and deciding such matters, it doesn’t take a genius to put two and two together. if anything one can argue that areas where Jews & Arabs live together are much more dangerous than places where they are separated by a strong barrier (even if they hate us more); Yerushalayim and the West Bank are more dangerous to Chareidim & Jewish Israelis than Gaza is. moving them all out of jewish areas to places deeper in the WB is the way to go if you want to keep the sidewalks in Israel safe and to halt this endless Arab murderous terrorism against our people. Interestingly once the IDF erected the main portion of the security wall in 2007 (the Israeli West Bank barrier or whatever they call it) 98% of terrorist attacks and suicide bombings were stopped /were prevented.
–> so either we continue to do nothing thinking that the arabs are good people while we’re always on the lookout for potential terrorists lurking behind the corners as we walk in our communities and when we send our kids to school, always moving around with hairs standing on our necks and preparing our communities for the next intifada… or we have to forcefully remove these arabs from our neighborhoods and push them further out which would probably create another Gaza-like entity in the Nablus-Jenin area – which would actually be SAFER for the average Israeli because the IDF could always monitor what goes on with drones and can bomb targets from above rather than having jews getting continuously butchered on the streets…
some would say having two Gazas to deal with (one in the northeast and one in the southwest) would be a bit of a problem – but i would prefer this any day over my fellow jews getting shot, stabbed, or run over on the sidewalk in ירושלים.
–> If we do not do these things terrorists attacks will continue to happen, and many hundreds of Jews more will mercilessly die a painful and violent death at the hands of these animal רוצחים when we could totally have done more to prevent it…February 14, 2023 12:02 am at 12:02 am #2165634☕️coffee addictParticipant
“that is the problem. we should be trying our best to FULLY SECURE our communities and not allow these arab terrorists who openly call for our death to be living next to our sons and daughters. if Moshe, Yehoshua, Gideon, Shimshon and Dovid Hamelech were running EY today they would totally not accept the current security situation.“
They would probably have klal yisrael do teshuva for an aveirah that was done or daven (like moshe with amelek)
When klal yisrael does the רצון ה׳ there is no need for “security”February 14, 2023 12:06 am at 12:06 am #2165641
Great thought provoking response thank you
The gedolim would say that the State itself is
not authorised by the Torah . Correct ?
Now after the fact the government have to deal with
Terror no godal would condone sitting on their handsFebruary 14, 2023 11:34 am at 11:34 am #2165764
Not sure the Gedolim would say that the state in not ‘authorized’ by the Torah.
Correct. No Gadol would condone sitting on their hands.
Who is sitting on their hands ? Not the state of Israel. It is trying it’s hardest to prevent these attacks.February 14, 2023 11:35 am at 11:35 am #2165794Avi KParticipant
Avira, did you ever hear of “eilu v’eilu”? Full disclosure: I do not go up on Har haBayit but those who rabbanim allow it should be allowed to do so. This ship sailed ninety years ago. The Mufti ym”s threatened dire consequences if the Jews would not admit that the Kotel is theirs. The Breitish and certain ghetto Jews pressured Rav Kook and Rav Sonnenfeld to agree. Both steadfastly refused and the threat dissipated.February 14, 2023 2:45 pm at 2:45 pm #2165814yechiellParticipant
jakk – i normally agree with you totally
however, what do you mean by the following : “Do you realize Israeli’s are living in the same Golus as the diaspora Jews?” Jews have returned home, and are NOT in golus.February 14, 2023 2:49 pm at 2:49 pm #2165836
Avi, rabbis from literally every camp of orthodoxy forbade going on har habayis, including rabbi kook and his son rabbi tzvi yehudah kook, every single chief rabbis, sefardi and ashkenazi…the only exception was shlomo goren, and even he only told people privately and didn’t want to publicize it.
That’s besides the original issur from rabbonim in Yerushalayim in the times of rav shmuel salant, when Montefiore thought he was allowed to go while carried in a box, etc…February 14, 2023 2:53 pm at 2:53 pm #2165844n0mesorahParticipant
Why should they be allowed to do so? Besides halacha. It’s a sensitive issue.February 14, 2023 5:23 pm at 5:23 pm #2165863
Jews have been given the tremendous privilege and zechus to live in EY. But we are all all still in Golus until Moshiach.
Practically speaking, Israel has enemies within and without who are ready to destroy her at the first opportunity. They must always be very careful how they act.February 14, 2023 5:27 pm at 5:27 pm #2165860n0mesorahParticipant
You probably are not aware of this. Some of those who permit going on har habayis really know what they are talking about. For that reason certain rabbonim in the traditional camp avoid the sugya.
None of it being permitted makes it a good idea. The winning question is why should religious jews be the face of this struggle.February 14, 2023 8:36 pm at 8:36 pm #2166047
“Some of those who permit going on har habayis really know what they are talking about…”
And thats why for a long time, the YWN editorial staff found it necessary to include a warning in BOLD BLACK FONT in all the news articles on the subject that gadolei yisroel prohibit going up on har habyis and violators are chayav kores…..Perhaps BG should try his luck again and go up to har habayis to disprove the fears of all the Gadolim (and the wimpy editors who subscribed to the views of Gadolei Yisroel).February 15, 2023 12:47 pm at 12:47 pm #2166222american_yerushalmiParticipant
To everyone who has a problem with golus.
Where exactly did golus Yavan take place? Was Klal Yisrael exiled to Greece? No, it took place tight here in EY. Golus is a spiritual state, along with being physically exiled from EY. In our ties, we have the privilege to live in EY, but the spiritual aspect of Golus is unfortunately still running at full steam,….February 16, 2023 8:12 am at 8:12 am #2166472
If we could only have achdus then we
would have no problems with the PalestiniansFebruary 16, 2023 10:29 am at 10:29 am #2166541☕️coffee addictParticipant
“If we could only have achdus then we
would have no problems with the Palestinians“
Personally IMO achdus only comes about through Torah
ויחן שם ישראל נגד ההר-כאיש אחד בלב אחד
By Purim Haman said עם מפוזר ומפורד which means there was no achdus and what happened afterwards קימו וקיבלו, קימו מה שקבלו כבר
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