June 13, 2021 10:45 pm at 10:45 pm #1982602richashuParticipant
Or is it?June 14, 2021 1:17 am at 1:17 am #1982670yuda the maccabiParticipant
its not easy but its possible
you just have to learn the ropes thing work differently here than in AmericaJune 14, 2021 8:26 am at 8:26 am #1982673hmlParticipant
And priorities & materialism are less important here. We make do with less, although we live decently.June 14, 2021 8:29 am at 8:29 am #1982678Sam KleinParticipant
Nothing is impossible. Even with such expensive housing and living in Israel. As long as you do your Hishtadlus and also work on maintaining your complete faith and trust in Hashem. Then Hashem will take care of the rest of your livelihood and life issues for you.
Make for yourself a daily learning Seder of the defer Chovos halevovos. (Duties of the heart)June 14, 2021 8:29 am at 8:29 am #1982691ParticipantParticipant
“you could make a small fortune in Eretz Yisroel
…if you come with a big one.”June 14, 2021 8:30 am at 8:30 am #1982693rationalParticipant
You don’t have to make a living in Israel. Your wife does. She was moichel her k’suva, no? You should just learn and have bitachon that the money will work out somehow. There are plenty of America-based jobs available for her including hi-tech, medical billing, book keeping, etc…June 14, 2021 10:30 am at 10:30 am #1982753akupermaParticipant
If it was impossible to make a living in Israel, you would not see an ever increasing number of Jews living in Israel. You also would not see Israel’s standard of living steadily rising from the ranks of underdeveloped countries 70 years ago to the one of the most prosperous countries. Some individuals may have a problem and based on the comments, one might suggest the typical problems include: 1) immigrating to Israel without being fluent in Israeli Hebrew and with a “skill set” designed for America rather than Israel; 2) trying to duplicate an American lifestyle in a totally different country rather than adapting one’s lifestyle to the Israeli economy (note that many things that are expensive in America are cheap in Israel, such as education and health care, whereas other things are relatively more expensive such as a single-family house in an urban center or private cars)June 14, 2021 11:25 am at 11:25 am #1982754Reb EliezerParticipant
The Ramban explains why one living in CH’L is like worshipping a’z. There are 70 natuons. ruled by a malach who has the title elohim but Hashem who rules over EY is elokei hoelohim, rules over them. If a person prays to these intermeadiaries, is worshipping a’z. einei Hashem elokecha bo.June 14, 2021 12:44 pm at 12:44 pm #1982922CTLAWYERParticipant
“priorities & materialism are less important here. ”
NO….a priority cannot be less important anywhere, if it is less important it is not a priority.
Perhaps you mean that you have different priorities in EY than chutz l’aretz.June 14, 2021 2:37 pm at 2:37 pm #1983044hmlParticipant
Yes, you are right, thank you for clarifying my point.June 14, 2021 3:19 pm at 3:19 pm #1983054
its near impossible to make it on Israeli wages, not to mention everything in Israel including getting a job a raise etc. is done with protectisia and everything in Israel is politics, you hardly ever see a Dati leumi working alongside of a Charedi, whereas its the norm in the USAJune 14, 2021 10:14 pm at 10:14 pm #1983143lakewhutParticipant
This sounds like something the Meraglim would say. No reason to say Lashon Hara about our Land. If you feel you have reasons why it doesn’t work for you, keep it to yourself. The amount of Chessed that exists in Israel is unparalleled.June 14, 2021 11:25 pm at 11:25 pm #1983174
just as a factual reference: Israeli GDP per person was 100% of OECD during Bibi’s first term – 1996-99. Then, went into a free fall in 2000-2008 to 80%, and started increasing back when Bibi became prime-minister again in 2009 at average rate of 1% per year, now being at 91% of OECD.
Unemployment rate was 9%, 2% over OECD in 2005, reached OECD in 2008, and is by 1.5% better than OECD from 2010 till now (3.8% in 2019).
In 2009, 20% of Israeli and OECD unemployed were “long term”. In 2019, it is 6% in Israel, 26% in OECD. 40% in France. 57% in Italy. 19% in US (after reaching 30% in 2010). So, Israel does not have long-term unemployment. At least according to official stats …
Average wages, though, are lower and again correlate strongly with Bibi’s reign:
increasing from 82 (or 77, a suspicious number in OECD stats) to 86% of OECD from 1996 to 2001, falling to 76% in 2004, up to 78% in 2007, down to 73% in 2010, then almost straight up to 81% in 2019, 1% per year increase.
To summarize, Israelis work as Americans and live like Italians.June 15, 2021 1:29 am at 1:29 am #1983185
Participant, that is what the spies said.June 15, 2021 8:16 am at 8:16 am #1983223essmeirParticipant
Yes you can make a living-Just check it out with Nefesh b’nesfesh.
Just to compare the two most expensive cities…,
Cost of Living Comparison Between New York, NY and Jerusalem (from numbeo.com)
You would need around $5,074.42 (16,470.91₪) in Jerusalem to maintain the same standard of life that you can have with $8,000.00 in New York, NY (assuming you rent in both cities). This calculation uses our Cost of Living Plus Rent Index to compare cost of living. This assumes net earnings (after income tax).
Consumer Prices in Jerusalem are 14.80% lower than in New York, NY (without rent)
Consumer Prices Including Rent in Jerusalem are 36.57% lower than in New York, NY
Rent Prices in Jerusalem are 61.63% lower than in New York, NY
Restaurant Prices in Jerusalem are 5.34% lower than in New York, NY
Groceries Prices in Jerusalem are 28.80% lower than in New York, NY
Local Purchasing Power in Jerusalem is 33.53% lower than in New York, NY
Using a Country (US and Israel) average looks like this:
Family of four estimated monthly costs are 12,463.84₪ without rent.
A single person estimated monthly costs are 3,512.65₪ without rent.
Cost of living in Israel is, on average, 20.97% higher than in United States.
Rent in Israel is, on average, 22.09% lower than in United States.June 15, 2021 10:59 am at 10:59 am #1983297
Average Israeli Wage is $11,990 NIS that converts to $3698 USD, not a living wage for your average large family. Don’t compare this to the Miraglim for one I am not complainingjust stating a fact, two no one is forced to live there. Yes Israel is renown for Chesed and the USA is known for TzedokaJune 15, 2021 11:37 am at 11:37 am #1983310lakewhutParticipant
Commonsaychel you’re saying something that’s false though. It’s not impossible.June 15, 2021 6:16 pm at 6:16 pm #1983452akupermaParticipant
essmeir: Are you aware that there are places in Israel other than Jerusalem, and in America other than New York. For a frum Jew, the minimum is to be in walking distance of a frum shul, with a shul, kashrus and mikva in the area. In America, that is limited to major cities. In Eretz Yisrael, you can meet that standard is most small towns and villages.
If your problem is that you need to live in the most expensive neighborhood possible, you will have a problem almost everywhere.June 15, 2021 6:17 pm at 6:17 pm #1983455TRUEBTParticipant
If you watch the original poster’s video, one of the points it makes is that IF you can get a job in the U.S. that is 99% remote, then you could live in Israel. The video says that there are men who learn in the morning and then start work after Mincha at 6 A.M. Eastern Standard Time.
So how about this? Try to find a job that is 99% remote. (You have to come back once in a while to visit family, don’t you?) Even if you don’t find a job, you will have succeeded. Why? Because maybe it is impossible – for you. But maybe your kids can find a way to move to E”Y. If you brainwash them into “it’s impossible”, they might never try.
The point of the story of the Meraglim is that because they said “we will never succeed al pi Derech Hateva”, so Hashem decided to make it impossible – for the Meraglim. That was their punishment for saying something that was 100% true – but demoralizing. Perhaps the reason you are not being allowed to move there is because you discourage other Jews from trying.
If you don’t even want to look for a 99% remote job at least tell your kids, “As soon as I make my first million, I’m moving to Israel.” If it never happens, so you’ll never move to Israel. But don’t discourage other Jews from trying to move to E”Y.June 15, 2021 11:02 pm at 11:02 pm #1983529
A chareidi Rav I know, when asked by married people, recommends to go first on a solo trip, arrange for parnasa and place to learn, and only then move the familyJune 16, 2021 1:09 am at 1:09 am #1983575takahmamashParticipant
It’s certainly not impossible to live in E”Y. Come and live with the right attitude, and understand that this isn’t the United States, and you’ll be fine. Come with the understanding that you don’t have to live in Yerushalayim or one of the Anglo ghettos, and you’ll be fine (and your rent or mortgage will be cheaper).June 16, 2021 8:00 am at 8:00 am #1983619UniqueUsernameParticipant
IT IS POSSIBLE TO MAKE A LIVING IN ISRAEL
You need to make serious research and preparations, such as speaking to people and getting help from Nefesh B’Nefesh
You need reasonable expectations and plans
You need Emunah and Bitachon
You also need to learn Hebrew (BTW, it also improves one learning)
It certainly can be done and is being done by many people.
B’HatzlachaJune 16, 2021 8:03 am at 8:03 am #1983608essmeirParticipant
akuperma: You are right. I picked NY and Jerusalem as the most expensive cities. And when you figure in costs of schooling, and other costs which are lower then in C”L, you can make it in Israel.
I live in Gush Etzion (between Hevron and Jerusalem), my cost of living is lower then Brooklyn, and quality of life is so much better. “There is no Torah like the Torah of Eretz…” is so true. I never REALLY understood it until I moved here, because you can live it!
Yes, you need to have the correct attitude. Yes, you need a realistic plan (Nefesh b’nefesh will help both before and after aliyah). Yes, you should learn conversational Hebrew, but there are many jobs that are available in English. Housing is expensive – so what! Housing is expensive in NY too and just like NY there are mortgages in Israel.
Eretz Yisrael is a holy land, unlike any other country. Begin your journey by do the research, make a plan and come home.June 16, 2021 9:02 pm at 9:02 pm #1983846RobertParticipant
It’s possible. Many sabras do, and many Olim do. If you go without a plan, without reasonable expectations of Israeli (not American) lifestyle, without sufficient secular education, marketable skills, and valued experience, then it will be much harder. As the Israeli economy grows and standards of living drives up prices of everything it will become harder for those least prepared and for Israeli natives who are least prepared.June 16, 2021 9:02 pm at 9:02 pm #1983828nussanParticipant
So stay in galus and hand over your wallet to muggers at best.June 17, 2021 8:03 am at 8:03 am #1983966
I would take my change with a mugger and my wallet over a missle and my body.
FYI we are still in golus even in Gush Ezion and NatanyaJune 18, 2021 9:22 am at 9:22 am #1984268reform rabbiParticipant
Actually, the fruits in Israel are ridiculously big!June 18, 2021 9:24 am at 9:24 am #1984278BenchKvatcherParticipant
If you feel like you cant make it… Dont come we dont need more Americans driving the prices up because they demand a high standard of living. We like our simple torahdika living standard.June 20, 2021 12:05 am at 12:05 am #1984529leah2330Participant
Its sad to read some of these comments and to see such a lack of clarity. Every step you take in EY is a mitzva. Its golus, true, but it is the place with most kedusha and spiritual opportunities that exist right now on earth. Is that not enough for you? If you love Hshem, and if you care about your neshama, this is the only place to be.. If you can come, then do it now.. You can make a living, sometimes even better than in chu’l. I know so many stories of people thriving here.. If you come here you will realize how many essential expenses will only be a fraction here.. health insurance.. tuition.. no need to go the “country” or to compete with the Rosenbergs. This is the only place that for our Jewish neshama.June 20, 2021 7:33 am at 7:33 am #1984568
CS, if you have a galut mentality then you are indeed in galut wherever you live. However, according to the chesed l’Avraham normal Jews receive an Eretz Yisraeli neshama the first night they sleep here.June 20, 2021 10:31 am at 10:31 am #1984623
@Avi K, There were certain gedolim and Rebbes who kept fresh clothing at the ready to greet Moshsiach, they were living in EY even if they were in Poland, Litak, Belarus or Hungary.
We must remember we can be Yerusalem, Chevron or anyplace else but until that great day comes WE ARE GOLUS!
Once Sir Herbert Samuel met with Rav Y C Sonnenfeld in the 1920s, The Rav’s home, a poor hovel of a dwelling, was ten steps underground with only one small window and no proper furniture. Concerned about the very destitute state of his home, askanim wanted to move the meeting place to a neighbor’s house. Reb Yosef Chaim adamantly refused: “This officer can see exactly how I live.” The only thing he did allow was for the askanim to place a simple tablecloth on his one table.
Arriving with his entourage, the High Commissioner was led, step by step, down into Reb Yosef Chaim’s home. The High Commissioner was aghast that a leading Rabbinical authority was living this way!
Sir Herbert asked Reb Yosef Chaim how he could abide in such conditions. In answer, Rav Yosef Chaim showed him the ‘view’ from his one little window that overlooked the devastation of Har Habayis. “You see that?” the Rav asked. “That was once our Temple, G-d’s house. It is in total ruins. If G-d still has no Home and no Temple, then I don’t need a nice home, either.”
BOTTOM LINE, WE ARE IN GULUS EVERYWHERE!June 20, 2021 12:45 pm at 12:45 pm #1984633
CS, your conclusion is nonsensical. Galut means not being in our homeland. Thus, Jews in EY are by definition not in galut. The fact that the Beit haMikdash has not been rebuilt only means that the geula is not complete. It is an unfolding process (Yerushalmi, Berachot 1:1).June 20, 2021 12:55 pm at 12:55 pm #1984646american_yerushalmiParticipant
Avi K: and in which foreign country did Galut Yavan take place?June 20, 2021 1:53 pm at 1:53 pm #1984656Reb EliezerParticipant
Avi K, when the Jews were in bavel even some were in EY, they still were in galus. od akabetz alov lenikbatzav. Having a government which violates the Torah is galus. Your question is discussed in Yechaveh Daas (1,43) whether we should continue to say Nacbem. We are in galus until the Beis Hamikdash is rebuilt, sorry your view is zionist view. Most Jews in EY don’t keep the Torah and until tbey do, we are in galus.June 20, 2021 10:30 pm at 10:30 pm #1984772
Somehow, we need to both recognize that we are still in golus and recognize the miracle of beauty of Eretz Israel full of Jewish people and Torah.
We were davening for centuries to be able to return to EY, and when it starts happening – excuse me Hashem, this is not the way I thought this should happen. 0
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