Ivris speaking cheder

I what you are saying but how do you expect young children who know very little Loshon Hakodesh to enter a preschool program using a language they do not understand?

1) Jewish children learned Torah for the last 2,000 years without learning to speak Ivrit.

2) Ivrit is a new language that didn’t even exist barely a hundred years ago.

3) Ivrit is not Loshon Kodesh.

4) Jewish children have successfully learnt Torah for over 2,000 years without learning Ivrit.

The Radak (Sefer HaMichlol, introduction) writes that Loshon HaKodesh is all but forgotten to us, and all we have left is what is in Tanach.

Modern Hebrew is not different than Turkish or Farsi – it is the language of a secular culture complete with all those things that we want to stay away from. The fact that some of those who speak Modern Hebrew are religious Jews is not different than the language of any country Jews are in where they speak the language of the land. The point is to stay away from the language of the land and only talk the language of the Jew.

The Chasam Sofer notes that while Chazal used many words and phrases borrowed from the Greeks and Romans, they never coined a new word, as has been done in modern hebrew, for in their holy opinion it was preferable to use other languages rather than create even a single new word that did not have its like, its example, in the Torah, since it could not be rooted in sanctity.

The Chasam Sofer EH 2:11 says that in ancient times Jews used to use a modified version of the non-Jewish languages for everyday (divrei chol) talk, similar to what Yiddish is. The Kuzari writes that Avrohom Avinu, therefore, spoke 2 different languages. One for holy speech – that was Loshon HaKodesh, and the other for mundane speech – that, the Kuzari says was some non-Jewish language that Avrohom Avinu took and changed around a little on his own. And thats the idea behind Yiddish. It is a non-Jewish language that we took and twisted a bit in order to make it exclusive among us.

The Rambam writes that even in the days of Ezra they had a translator to explain the Torah readings to the people – clearly, they did not speak Loshon Hakodesh, even before the Churban.

I’ve found the whole ivrit thing very difficult l’ma’aseh. On the one hand it’s really disgusting to hear the things people say on the street in modern hebrew and how our holy tongue has been perverted, especially when you hear vulgar people speaking. I read in a biography of Reb Yoilish that he once said, “I wish I knew hilchos Shabbos as well as I know that it’s assur to speak ivrit!”

On the other hand, as a baal teshuva with absolutely no Jewish schooling growing up (not even reform) the difference in my learning ability before I went to ulpan and after was basically in different galaxies. So on an idealistic level I’d like to poo-pah ivrit but on a pragmatic level without my knowledge of ivrit my kodesh learning would be limited to very little beyond English translations.

Also we send our kids to chinuch atzmai schools so anyway they are learning in ivrit (albeit peppered with a lot more lashon hakodesh and yiddish than ivrit on the street). We toyed with the idea sending to yiddish speaking only chedarim but it’s just too big a leap for us.

With regards to the OP – regardless of your stance on lashon hakodesh vs ivrit, (and with all other things being equal as far as your ability to do so) the easiest solution would be to make aliyah so that your children grow up learning Torah in it’s natural language to begin with!

Yossi, the problem with your theory is that there was rampant avodah zarah throughout Israel from the times of Joshua up until the first churban. Most Israelite homes in Judea and the north that have been uncovered in archeological digs had little statues of astarte and all of Shoftim involved Bnei Yisroel being punished for idol worship. Ironically, two things disappeared with Ezra’s return, idol worship and nevuah. Neither is mentioned in the Second Temple period.

By the way, two other things changed with Ezra’s return, and noone really knows why. 1. We adopted Babylonian names for months that previously had no name I.e. Tammuz 2. We adopted an Amaraic form of block letters ( our current printed alphabet ). All writing prior to the churban was in what is called paleo-Hebrew, which looks starkly different.

LB: Hamon Am is “the general public”.

Iacisrmma, you would be surprised at how quickly small children pick up a language.

Joseph,

Actually the Sheeta Mekubetzet says that it the Raavad questioned if someone is yotzi talmud Torah in a gentile language (and Yiddish is not even a language but a corrupt form of German). A person who speaks in Lashon HaKodesh merits Olam HaBa, Geula and long life (Yerushalmi Shabbat 1:3). The Gra considered speaking it to be a mitzva and spoke it himself (Biur HaGra YD 245,10 and Responsa Divrei Yetziv YD 52-53) as did Rav Kook (in fact, when Rav Charlap first met him he addressed him in Yiddish and Rav Kook informed him that he was not to be addressed in “Jargon”).

The language one speaks influences one’s mind-set. Thus the more one speaks in Lashon HaKodesh the more kedusha he internalizes. Ezra very much lamented the linguistic situation in his time. However, we see from the Mishna and Gemara in later times talmidei chachamim spoke it although more so in EY (holy land, holy language). It could be that the Chatam Sofer means that the people in Tanachic times added words from other languages to express foreign concepts as did the Tannaim (who sometimes used Greek and Latin words).

I think what we are missing is the fact that a child should learn Torah in their own language. It is well known that the Chazon Ish did not put emphasis in learning davka in Yiddish. At that time, there were people who could not speak yiddish, so he said they should be taught in their mother tongue, Ivrit. I have heard the following quote, “A cheder is not an ulpan”.

Therefore, nowadays, besides in the main chassidish centres and ‘American’ yeshivos, ivrit is the language of Torah learning in Eretz Yisroel.

I know many people from yekkish/litvish homes, i.e. english speaking, who learned in Yiddish schools in London (Stamford Hill, where there are no non-chassidish schools anymore), and they can’t read and translate chumash into English. They can translate into yiddish parrot fashion without any understanding at all.

Of course, we want children to open up a hebrew Sefer and give a dvar Torah at the shabbos table, but better to understand your learning in the classroom.

YOSSI: Sorry but I do not expect that of my 7 year old.

Yossi, I know of plenty of people who send their children to a yiddish speaking cheder I.e. chassidish(not just teitching in yiddish) and they can’t understand their chumash.

Avi K. No it’s because they chant it in a beautiful traditional tune, that the hailigge zaides and elter zaides chanted it in. But don’t translate it into english at all. The kids can read hebrew, but don’t understand it.