July 3, 2012 6:28 pm at 6:28 pm #603977
The Jew who is on Americas Got Talent and made it to the quarters final. He performed last night in front of thousands wearing his kippa on his head and singing a clean song. I think its a kiddush Hashem. Plus he has a good chance of making it to the semi finals. Its a good thing to see Jews featured in a positive light, especially the sweet humble nature that this kid represented.July 3, 2012 6:39 pm at 6:39 pm #885336
There is nothing positive or praiseworthy about being on a show.July 3, 2012 6:58 pm at 6:58 pm #885337
I agree. The fact that a kid who publicly proclaims that he is a religious Jew (by wearing a yarmulka) acts so refined and respectful is a real Kiddush Hashem. Good for him and the parent(s) who raised him!July 3, 2012 6:59 pm at 6:59 pm #885338
this is oldJuly 3, 2012 7:27 pm at 7:27 pm #885339
I have watched “America’s Got Talent” for less than 15 minutes, and from that very small sample, I have concluded (perhaps wrongly) that it is trash. Sticking a tznius Jew into the mix is not a kiddush Hashem. It creates the wrongful impression that the show is not trash, or that Jews can mix with trash and not be affected by it.July 3, 2012 8:07 pm at 8:07 pm #885340
I agree with yitayningwutJuly 3, 2012 8:10 pm at 8:10 pm #885341
I don’t watch the show. I heard that there was a Jew on it but I didn’t know he was observant.July 3, 2012 9:06 pm at 9:06 pm #885342
Jews are supposed to be a “Goy Kodosh U’Mamleches Cohanim,
a holy nation and a kingdom of priests.”
A Jew appearing on America’s Got Talent in front on non-Jews, singing non-Jewish songs, competing to go into non-Jewish show business, is not part of a Torah-dik Jewish lifestyle.
A Jew does not sanctify G-d’s Name by appearing on a show where he has no business being, in the first place.July 3, 2012 11:37 pm at 11:37 pm #885343
Blackhatwanna, Ever hear the expression, “Tovel v’sheretz b’yado”?July 4, 2012 1:36 am at 1:36 am #885344
golfer, ever heard the expression “not relevant to the discussion”?July 4, 2012 1:48 am at 1:48 am #885345
He wasn’t at the first performance, it was taped beforehand so he could attend his graduation. But I think he was actually at the second one in vegas. If you watched the rest of the show you would be praying he sat backstage with his eyes closed and ears shut. He is a wonderful boy and he is observant, I would love for him to win the million dollars but I have to say, I hope he doesn’t win. I agree with Miss Doe and nfgo.July 4, 2012 2:04 am at 2:04 am #885346
Couldn’t pick a more shmutzidik town than Vegas.July 4, 2012 2:21 am at 2:21 am #885347
You all seem to be missing the point.The frum oilam has not been earning a positive image of late.sexual abuse, money laundering rabbis,crazy stuff in israel,threatening victims.
This kid is projecting a positive image.In other words a kiddush hashem.July 4, 2012 3:45 am at 3:45 am #885348
Now he made it to the SEMIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!July 4, 2012 3:51 am at 3:51 am #885349
Red I totally agree. Guys he is a modern boy yes frum but let’s be realistic. He probably watches tv, I know that his siblings go to camp morasha which is a very modern orthodox camp. To some of you maybe this is shmutz and disgraceful, but it’s pretty amazing and closer to a Kiddish Hashem in my opinion than the things some of you are saying.July 4, 2012 3:52 am at 3:52 am #885350
Spoiler alert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!July 4, 2012 2:21 pm at 2:21 pm #885351
The issues with the “Frum Oilam” do not change the fact that a Jew does not belong on that show.
In addition to winning a million dollars, the winner also gets a show as the headliner on the Las Vegas Strip.
Since Season Five, the show has also made the winner the headline act of a national tour with runners-up, following the final show, stopping in 25 cities in 2010.
Is this a Kosher environment for a Jew?
A Jew can be refined and respectful without going on that show.
If C”V a Jew goes into a non-Kosher fast-food restaurant and orders a cheeseburger, while acting refined and respectful to the person behind the counter,
is he performing a Kiddush Hashem?July 4, 2012 2:50 pm at 2:50 pm #885352
Ok so a chassidish kid wouldn’t go on the show, a kid who grows up watching this show and others like it, this is a dream for him. I see nothing wrong with it.July 4, 2012 3:57 pm at 3:57 pm #885353
The young boy seems to be a lovely ambassador for American Jewry.
We come in many shapes and forms, our religious affiliations are very diverse, for gentile America to see this young boy is a positive and heart warming thing.July 4, 2012 3:59 pm at 3:59 pm #885354
The issue of whether someone is Chassidish or not is irrelevant.
The purpose of the Jew is to sanctify the world with Torah and Mitzvos.
This isn’t it.July 4, 2012 4:12 pm at 4:12 pm #885355
I hear that. But my point is that everyone can sit here and pass judgement, but the truth is the vast majority of people on this site come from a very different background than Edon. I’m his community this is acceptable, good even because he is bringing positive attention to Jews and he is such a mentch. You can call its shmutZ and pritzus and fine maybe so, but all the goyim are going to think are, wow what a sweet boy with a beautiful voice, what great manners, wow I never see Jews on tv ever. And I agree that with all the negative publicity we have been getting lately, this puts a positive light on us Jews.July 5, 2012 3:05 am at 3:05 am #885356
His being on the show is a tremendous Chillul Hashem. A KH/CH is primarily determined by how other Jews will see it. Since other Jews hearing that he was on a TV show may mistakenly think, C”V, that there is nothing wrong with the idea, it is a massive CH.July 5, 2012 5:14 am at 5:14 am #885357
Song of BlessingMember
I agree with MorahRach… but the problem with this is that its an extremely difficult challenge to stand up to the pressures of hollywood, and the public media.
Even if it creates a positive atmosphere in the world right now in the future he’s hugely at risk of being influenced by the media and everything that goes on, thereby making a Chillul Hashem later on by not staying frum.
Either way it is cool, and ohr chodesh – the people who think theirs nothing wrong with the idea probably thought it before. People don’t change their minds so quickly… unless they weren’t strong on their opinion in the first place.
With so much out there – matisyahu, judah the macabee, de-scribe, and more… there are plenty of frum people who sing out there in holywood etc the boy actually has more chances than he would have many years ago of making a kiddush Hashem – despite what I said before…July 5, 2012 5:36 am at 5:36 am #885358
And look where Matisyahu ended up. First the beard and payos got shaved off. And then he was running around without, even, a yarmulka.July 5, 2012 5:48 am at 5:48 am #885359
☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
the people who think theirs nothing wrong with the idea probably thought it before. People don’t change their minds so quickly… unless they weren’t strong on their opinion in the first place.
You’ve just made an argument for nothing ever causing a Kiddush Hashem or Chilul Hashem.July 5, 2012 6:00 am at 6:00 am #885360
Mods, please close this thread. Obviously the decision was made for him to go on it whether the CR agrees or not and at this point any (pointless) discussion seems to be going nowhere good.
TIAJuly 5, 2012 12:36 pm at 12:36 pm #885361
I watch America’s Got Talent. It warmed my heart to see a frum kid on the show. What a wonderful change from some of the wierd, pierced, tattooed youth of today. For a young, respectful, clean cut, well spoken kid, to walk onto a stage with a kippa on his head – how can that not be a Kiddush Hashem! Yes, you can say it’s a bad environment for a frum kid, but if the kid is strong in his yiddishkeit (which I believe he is), and he has his parents there with him (which they are), then I say good for him. I don’t know if he will go on to win the whole competition, but I know I will be voting for him!July 5, 2012 1:06 pm at 1:06 pm #885362
Ohr Chodesh: Ad’raba, if the only people on television were Frum Jews then there would be nothing wrong with television at all.July 5, 2012 1:36 pm at 1:36 pm #885363
Morah Rach, I agree with your thoughts in your last post. Well put.
Minor note. Kid’s siblings go to Camp Moshava, not Morasha. Not a huge difference, but Morasha is YU type MO (in Lake Como, PA), and Moshava is B’nei Akiva MO (they go to the one in Wild Rose, Wisconsin, where Edon sent the campers a video message right after his performance a couple of days ago).
I’m not sure if it is a KH, but I don’t think it goes as far as a CH. There are certainly much, much worse shows and competitions on television, and, as I have said elsewhere, it is interesting that this particular mode of public talent competition is a throwback to values and culture from the 30s, 40s, and 50s, which had in general more wholesomeness than what is prevalent today.
I did want to respond to the comparison to Matisyahu. The situation is vastly different. This young man comes from a frum home, has been shomer mitzvos his whole life, lives in a close knit community, will be going to Ida Crown in September for Yeshiva high school. He has the background and the surroundings to continue to live an MO Torah lifestyle with the guidance of his parents, who are also both involved in community leadership and learning. Matisyahu did not have the benefit of these foundations, and so I don’t think the comparison is valid.July 5, 2012 1:52 pm at 1:52 pm #885364
This was posted before. At first, I believed it was the Israeli version- but here is a link to him singing.
I believe the boy’s Edon, and I think that if Howie -one of the judges can be impressed and joke about it, then it was a kiddush Hashem. The boy got great reviews all three judges.
And even one judge complimented about how humble he was, so, please those who are haters- watch the video first, then JUDGE for yourself. If the judges were impressed- then, yes it is a kiddush Hashem, indeed.July 5, 2012 2:33 pm at 2:33 pm #885365
And if chazir was kosher, you could eat it.July 5, 2012 3:16 pm at 3:16 pm #885366
ohr chodesh- That point is irrelevant, look where Mattisyahu started.July 5, 2012 3:21 pm at 3:21 pm #885367
His discarding his yarmulka in public, is very far from being irrelevant.July 5, 2012 3:37 pm at 3:37 pm #885368
With 50% of MO youth texting on Shabbos, they are not any better off than where Matisyahu started off.July 5, 2012 3:56 pm at 3:56 pm #885369
Mattisyahu is not a good comparison. He grew up mo-dox, on his own became chassidish then decided it wasnt for him. He has been trying to find himself, fine but lets not blame the music industry because he got into music before he became frum. If anything i would say the spirituality in his music helped him in his journey, maybe he is a little lost now though.July 5, 2012 4:25 pm at 4:25 pm #885370
Yichusdik: I never thought I’d see Ida Crown and Yeshiva high school in the same sentence.July 5, 2012 5:23 pm at 5:23 pm #885371
I personally know the boy and he is a mentch. Those of you comparing going on AGT to eating treif should be ashamed of yourselves. When your husband’s kollel comes knocking on his door asking for money, I’m sure you’ll have no trouble taking it. Some people need to earn a parnassah. That entails going into non-jewish environments and doing something other than sitting and learning. He is using the kochos that Hashem blessed him with. All three judges are jewish and all commented on what a nice boy he was and how respectful he acted. Thus, a kiddush hashem was made.July 5, 2012 5:36 pm at 5:36 pm #885372
This kid is a sensation- a real kiddush hashem- look around and see whats going on in our ‘frum’ communities and everything- if you want to compare to anything then i think you have no basis of saying he’s a chilul hashem or any of that nonesense- he has talent, he acts refine with respect and i think he sets a positive example!July 5, 2012 6:24 pm at 6:24 pm #885373
I think that there is a misconception here which needs clarification.
Many times, the words, “Kiddush Hashem,” are used only to denote Jews acting in a way that makes them look good to non-Jews and to non-observant Jews.
However, it is a Kiddush Hashem only if it is done within the context of a Jew living his life according to the Torah, in agreement with Hashem’s will for Jews.
Nobody is hating anyone here. Both Howie and Edon are lovely people; but due to gaps in their Jewish upbringing, through absolutely no fault of their own, they are in a place where they are not supposed to be.
If a Frum Jew holds the door for an elderly person and helps him carry packages and helps him pick up items that fall onto the floor, or if a Frum Jew gives up his seat to an elderly person on a bus or a train; that’s a Kiddush Hashem.
If Edon uses his G-d-given gift to sing Zmiros at the Shabbos table or to sing in Shul; that’s a Kiddush Hashem.
No matter how polite the non-Jewish judges find him; a Jew singing non-Jewish songs to compete with non-Jews on a TV show is not where a Jew should be in the first place, even if, unfortunately, he doesn’t know it.July 5, 2012 9:35 pm at 9:35 pm #885374
By the way, when a Jew learns Torah in Kollel;
the world is affected in a spiritual way,
where the Torah learning brings holiness to the world
and brings closer the arrival of Moshiach.
When you support a Kollel,
you are participating in the Mitzvah and get reward for it.July 5, 2012 10:50 pm at 10:50 pm #885375
To chime in, I think people have to distinguish between 2 separate things:
Where he is, and what he’s doing there.
As a young man coming from his background, going on AGT must seem like a great thing. Yes, the correctness of this can be debated.
BUT, once in the position in which he finds himself, acting in a manner befitting our great Jewish nation is most certainly a Kiddush Hashem!July 6, 2012 3:22 pm at 3:22 pm #885376
You’re thinking exemplifies much of the problem the Frum world faces these days. Gaps in his upbringing? Why because he doesn’t wear black and white? Who do you think you are? Howie, I will agree with you. He is not a religious Jew, but Edon goes to a Frum school and was raised in a Frum environment.
Please explain to me the problem with “singing non-jewish songs to compete with non-Jews on a TV show.”
Is it that the songs were originally sung by non-Jews? Please find me where in the shulchan aruch it says you can’t sing such songs. Do you ever sing the song Happy Birthday?
Does he sing any song with any vulgarity in it? No.
Is it that he is participating in something with non-jews? Like I said, some of us have to go out and earn a parnassah. I have to practice non-jewish law and compete with non-jewish lawyers in a non-jewish court. Is that a problem? Maybe I should just sit and learn and try to live off of other people’s tzdakahe. Oh, and I’ll also condemn those who are giving me the tzdakah for earning the money.
And just to be clear, I have no problem whatsoever with learning in kollel and have a lot of respect for those who do. I have a problem with those who don’t have respect for those not learning in kollel. Especially when you’re willing to take their money.
Guess what? Some people don’t dress like you, some people don’t hold of all the things that you do. But that doesn’t mean you’re any better than them.July 6, 2012 8:38 pm at 8:38 pm #885377
ain’t this more than bordering on loshon hora and even motzi shem ra? is there a good purpose to letting this go on?July 6, 2012 10:44 pm at 10:44 pm #885378
I never wrote that I’m better than anyone or that I wear black and white, which I don’t.
You do not “compete” with non-Jewish lawyers in a non-Jewish court.
Each side presents its evidence, and the judge and jury render their verdict, based on the evidence.
Practicing the law of the land is not the same as singing songs and playing music, which have a spiritual effect on the soul, depending on their origin.
Music is a very sublime form of expression, and a person’s music is a product of the composer’s soul. Therefore, even music without words can have an effect on you.
The Mishna Brurah (Shaar HaTziyun) brings in the name of the Shelah that a woman should not even sing a baby to sleep with a non-Jewish melody, because it can have an affect on the baby’s Nishama.July 6, 2012 10:53 pm at 10:53 pm #885379
QFW: Really?? You’re quoting a distorted Shittah that Joseph brought up in a thread a few months back that Yitay already showed was pure Giluy Ponim Shelo K’halacha?July 8, 2012 8:33 pm at 8:33 pm #885380
@QFY-You are judging the boy and his parents for their decision to allow him to compete.
First of all, while practicing law might seem that way in John Grisham novels or “Law & Order,” it doesn’t exactly work that way. Further, how is it not competing? Each side wants to achieve a different objective. That by definition is competition. It’s the same in business and just about every profession.
So you’re bringing me a Shar Hatziyon which apparently doesn’t even exist according to Sam2, that doesn’t assur anything or even apply to the situation as a basis for condemning the kid’s actions. I’m glad you are such a givaldike posek that you can equate recommending not singing to a baby, (not assuring it), to assuring singing for a parnassah.July 8, 2012 8:45 pm at 8:45 pm #885381
kiddush Hashem is assessed by how the torah and HKBH view something that happens. Why would Hashem be happy that one of his children is singing with a bunch of goyim in las vegas. do you think it would make R chaim kanievsky happy? and isnt he close to Hashem? So it would follow that he would understand what makes Hashem happy? why in the world do some people lket what they think and what their emotions tell them get in the way of how yiddishkeit view something? Kiddush Hashem isnt toluy on what your gut says, nor is it toluy on what you want to be true. so can it.July 9, 2012 12:22 am at 12:22 am #885382
I just watched his performance this kid is a real mensch and very talented.July 9, 2012 12:25 am at 12:25 am #885383
Why wouldn’t Hashem be happy that one of his children is acting respectfully and nicely with a yarmulke on, in front of an entire nation, doing his hishtadlus?
And where did R’ Chaim Kanievsky enter this conversation. Would it make him happy? I don’t know, did you ask him and he said no? Just because it doesn’t involve a gemorah, doesn’t mean it’s not a kiddush hashem. Why do some people have such a narrow-minded view of things and think it is their way or the highway?
My Rosh Yeshiva once compared avodas hashem to baseball. In baseball, every infield is exactly the same, but all the outfield’s are different sizes. The infield is the Torah. There can be no changing it, and there can be no deviations. Everything else as far as serving Hashem, there are different paths for different people. That’s the outfield.
Let’s try not to judge people so quickly and disapprove of their actions by assuming R’ Chaim disproves.July 9, 2012 5:25 am at 5:25 am #885384
Jumping into a filth pit and acting nicely isn’t at all a kiddush Hashem. We aren’t supposed to have representatives amongst the lowest creatures of society. Celebrities. Yes they are the ones that continue to degrade the level of respect that Americans have had for themselves for many years. If you think I’m crazy take a look at a picture of participants at Yankee stadium in the 20’s and compare it to today, you’ll be shocked. Point is celebrities are filth covered in run foil and that’s not where a Jew is supposed to be handing out.
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