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what does your lushen hureh have to do with the statements of the Satmar Rebbe in Vayoel Moshe?
You would be hard pressed to find an organization more controlled by laymen than the Satmar affiliated Edah HaChariedis . The lay people in Agudah do not put out Kol Koreys in the name of the moetzes without their knowledge. The Edah HaChareidis does so on a weekly basis. It is alleged that Rav Yisroel Yaakov Fisher the Raavad of the Edah HaChareidis used to say that he reads the pashkevilin on his way home from Mincha to find out what he signed on last night…
[smerel]
yankel- im not following this thread closely but i happened to notice your comment. again i made it clear that what i said applies to people on both sides of the debate. a possible exception might be quoting a gadol directly
from from the ArtScroll History Series biography
of Rabbi Moshe Sherer, chapter 22, page 547:“Such a committee of investigation would have served
as a ploy to unseat Prime Minister Menachem Begin,
for whom both the Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah
of America and that of Eretz Yisrael had great respect.”PERSONAL COMMENT:
This short quote proves that the Gedolim had
“great respect” for Israel’s Prime Minister: Mr. Menachem Begin,
even though Menachem Begin was the leader of a Secular Zionist state!__________________________________________
from from the ArtScroll History Series biography
of Rabbi Moshe Sherer, chapter 22, page 547, footnote 9:When Rabbi Porush conveyed these sentiments to Rabbi Shach,
the latter responded, “We must pray for the health of
[Prime Minister Menachem] Begin.Please phone [Menachem] Begin immediately and
tell him that I [Rabbi Shach] pray for him constantly.”PERSONAL COMMENT:
This short quote proves that Rabbi Shach ZTL ZYA prayed for
Israel’s Prime Minister: Mr. Menachem Begin, “constantly”,
even though Menachem Begin was the leader of a secular Zionist state!
__________________________________________>>>what does your lushen hureh have to do with the statements of the Satmar Rebbe in Vayoel Moshe?
The Satmar Rebbe in Vayoel Moshe criticizes Agudah for being headed by laymen. As such it behooves all of his followers to take a good look at the Edah HaChariedis and the amount of power laymen have in that organization. At least when the Moetzes of Aguda puts out a statement you know that most of them actually support it. When a statement is put out in the name of the rabbinical leadership of the Edah HaChariedis it is frequently flat out Daas Baaley Batim using their names without their prior knowledge.
for your made up speculative “concern” you decided there is a toeles to motzi shem ra on the beis of Jerusalem, headed by the litvish Gadol Rav Moshe Shternbuch shlit”a?
What does this even have to do with the conversation? I mentioned the Satmar Rebbes statements in Vayoel Moshe (again, I think that’s where I saw it) that the rabanim in Agudas Yisoel who are living in Eretz Yisroel cannot paskin with confidence vis a vis the zionists because they are nogea b’davar. This is part of the larger critique that Adudah in general in NOT a beis din and is NOT run by the moetzes. This is core to the agudah’s structure by design, not something they deny.
>>>for your made up speculative “concern” you decided there is a toeles to motzi shem ra on the beis of Jerusalem, headed by the litvish Gadol Rav Moshe Shternbuch shlit”a?
Um.. The point of the V’Yoel Moshe about the Aguda seems to have gone completely over your head. There is a major difference between a reference to the Badatz in the context of it’s function as a Beis Din and the Badatz in it’s function as a political group hanging up paskevilin and calling for demonstrations . The former is a respected group. The latter is just a bunch of baaley batim. As the V’Yoel Moshe says in reference to the Aguda the problem with these type of groups is that the Baaley Batim end up taking over. Rarely is that observation as true as it is about the Satmar affiliated Edah Hachredis.
I will not respond further on this topic
no, that’s not just “an observation”, rather without any toeles it’s being motzei shem ra on what you admit is a “respected group”.
I don’t know how you can retract your evil words, but I hope you will at least follow your current inspiration to “not respond further on this topic”.
May we all see the evil state called “Israel” peacefully be uprooted and destroyed, speedily and in our days.
smerel > with these type of groups is that the Baaley Batim end up taking over
I saw the follow ascribed to Chofetz Chaim at the time when parties were in fashion: in every party, even the one that os made of Rabbis, the power will be in the hands of the Secretary…
bottom line . ard is doling out tickets to gehinnom.
But not across the board.
When the gdoley yisrael manhigim and yo’atsim of aguda are called a disgrace, ard is extremely quiet.
But when leadership of satmar [not clear whether the intention is towards lay leadership or rabbinic leadership] , then ard comes out in full force and notifies us in BOLD LETTERING , no less , that we won a one way trip to gehinnom.
It seems that he is [self]appointed as guardian of sha’arei gehinnom.
Ard knows who is and who isn’t admitted.
How does he know that ?
.Does he have inside [!] knowledge of what goes on there ?
.
.How would he ??
.
.No one here called Agudas leadership a disgrace, I mentioned that the Satmar Rebbe does in Vayoel Moshe to give context to a separate point.
However, @smerel, decides to randomly and without explanation bash the main beis din of Jerusalem that is respected worldwide and an accepted authority of all ashkenazy communities there (chassidish and litvish).
The satmar rebbe zy”a was clear and explicit in his motivation and toeles to speak out against corruption, @smerel simply said he will stop talking.
It is very hard for satmar to ask for protection under hilchot lashon hara and kibud talmidei hahamim when they themselves don’t offer their own opponents said protection .
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