November 27, 2022 4:30 pm at 4:30 pm #2142380
When you think of Jews as individuals in regard to physical strength you think wimp. But why is that? When you look back in Torah the Forefathers, Tribes, kings and warriors had tremendous strength and were feared. What caused us to be so cowardly, and weak? It shouldn’t be that way. It seems that the non Jews have very strong physical genes, but looking back one would think that Jews also had, so when did this change and is it possible for the Jews to be mighty again and not a easy target for the goyim to take their rage out against
Or do we need to continue being taught to be a sheep hunched over on a chair with a book open?November 27, 2022 4:40 pm at 4:40 pm #2142656
Do you think Yaakov avinu lifted weights?November 27, 2022 5:33 pm at 5:33 pm #2142661AviraDeArahParticipant
Put down your English bible and learn tanach with malbimNovember 27, 2022 5:34 pm at 5:34 pm #2142664akupermaParticipant
Do you some basis, other than zionist and Nazi propaganda, to believe that Jews are wimps?
What is true is that our survival and welfare are a function intellect and ruchniyos.November 27, 2022 5:34 pm at 5:34 pm #2142665
coffee, Yaakov lifting a weight is mefurash in the Chumash.November 27, 2022 5:35 pm at 5:35 pm #2142666
Physical strength has never been an attribute. When they were righteous Hashem helped them win wars and conquer Israel. Since the exile our might has diminished.November 27, 2022 5:47 pm at 5:47 pm #2142677
Lifting a stone one time wasn’t lifting weights and secondly he didn’t do it to show how strong he was (I’ve heard a pshat that really the shepherds could lift if they were just making excusesNovember 27, 2022 6:44 pm at 6:44 pm #2142681
coffee, if I don’t have the strength, I would not be able to pick up that stone even a hundred potential shiduchim would be watching. You are right that there is a lot behind this story, like shepherds not trusting each other and Yaakov teaching them derech eretz, but arguing against the peshat is not the best way to prove your point.November 27, 2022 6:45 pm at 6:45 pm #2142688
lakewhut-strength did seem to be an attribute with half of the Shevatim.November 27, 2022 6:45 pm at 6:45 pm #2142689
aluperma-“Do you some basis, other than zionist and Nazi propaganda, to believe that Jews are wimps?”
-well the world usually views us as that which is why you see so many physical attacks on Jews as an easy target with no consequence since at most they will run away or shout. Im not blaming anyone I’m just wondering why we are taught to be that wayNovember 27, 2022 7:06 pm at 7:06 pm #2142702
I’m not arguing against a pshatNovember 27, 2022 8:48 pm at 8:48 pm #2142714akupermaParticipant
actually, the goyim never saw us as wimps
they attack us to prove they can their avodah zarah’s enemiesNovember 27, 2022 9:25 pm at 9:25 pm #2142725
akuperma, the nations dont see us as wimps as a whole since they know our history and our spiritual connection, but physically as individuals you see what easy targets we are , mostly.November 28, 2022 7:14 am at 7:14 am #2142755KuvultParticipant
The difference between us & them.
Goy: I’m gonna ride that angry bull & show him who is boss.
Yid: Why would you ride the bull? You could get hurt & besides does it matter if the bull thinks he’s the boss?November 28, 2022 7:15 am at 7:15 am #2142756Shimon NodelParticipant
Avira, why don’t you learn Ramban? Yes, the earlier generations did have super strength. The answer to the question is that we are cursed when we are in galus amd lack the brachos of the Torah. It’s a pasuk, ארור פרי בטנךNovember 28, 2022 7:19 am at 7:19 am #2142786Sam KleinParticipant
Do YOU drink coffee, I’m just asking? See that’s your corrupted mind (יצר הרע) fooling you and convincing you huh I had my morning coffee now I feel strong and ready to go to work/learn. What would be if your spouse or parent woke you up one morning and asked you, how are you feeling today? now that you slept longer than usual? You would reply much better and be more ready for my day. And then a minute later the person yells back at you, no it’s a mistake that was 2 nights ago, don’t you remember last night we had a late night wedding and didn’t return home until after 2:00am? What would happen to you as soon as you heard that? Your entire body would weaken now that your mind told you that you slept the same many hours as usual. Showing you that it’s all in the corrupted mind and the way how a person thinks. What’s. A Pill/Vitamin? 100 crumbs put together to make it into a pill but nobody can heal anyone besides Hashem Directly and all strength comes DIRECTLY FROM HASHEM as we say in davening every morning Hanosein layoeif Coach-Blessed is Hashem for giving us strength. Sure we still have to do our hishtadlus and eat, drink, sleep etc…. Who do YOU think has a bigger chance of their tefillos being answered directly from Hashem? Go to a Gadol Hador for a Bracha for Children or a Shidduch or go to the corner of your house and call out directly to Hashem? Your right He’s a big Gadol Hador and there’s a famous line “צדיק גוזר ה מקיים” but the pro of YOU going directly to Hashem is WAY more powerful. What’s the message? Stop depending on Rebbe’s, segulahs, doctor’s & Lawyers and turn directly to Hashem for help as we say in bentching “ודורשי ה לא יחסרו כל טוב”November 28, 2022 7:29 am at 7:29 am #2142814Yabia OmerParticipant
You guys can argue all you want but everyone knows that the IDF changed the perception of the world vis a vis the “weak Jew”. And that does not negate the fact that Hashem runs the world.November 28, 2022 10:24 am at 10:24 am #2142847Reb EliezerParticipant
הקל קול יעקב our strength is in our voice, in our belief in Hashem to daven to Him. There is no vov in it to indicate that when our voice becomes weak, והידים ידי עשו Eisav strengthens itself.November 28, 2022 1:09 pm at 1:09 pm #2142943
“You guys can argue all you want but everyone knows that the IDF changed the perception of the world vis a vis the “weak Jew”. And that does not negate the fact that Hashem runs the world. ”
Yabia, thats the IDF, nobody is looking at a Jew in Brooklyn and thinking IDF. Lets be honest.
My point is maybe we can change that by stopping our weak physical mentality that a Jew needs to just sit all day until they are a wheezing hunchback from deficient sunlight and physical fitness, instead of eating right and getting some exercise done in order to keep healthy and strong.
Im not suggesting that anyone abandon Yeshiva for the Gym Chas VeShalom, rather I’m suggesting that we incorporate some physical exercise to keep healthy and strong and also maybe to know how to stand up for ourselves mentally and physically. Enough of being easy targets.November 28, 2022 2:12 pm at 2:12 pm #2142978Yabia OmerParticipant
1. I think the perception of Jews the world over has benefited from the IDF, even a guy in Brooklyn.
2. Having said that, I agree with you 100%. The CHIDA has a tefila to include in davening in which he asks for Hashem to grant us Chilutz Atzamos (physical strength). Jews should be top caliber intellectually, including in Torah study, but also should be top caliber physically. It doesn’t mean they are obsessed body builders. It just means they are in shape, strong, brave, etc.
I must say that in Israel, the Dati model is a little more successful in that regard. They are frum, but they give off an image of strength, confidence, etc. The Chareidim give off a weak, feable image.
Why can’t we be both?
PS: Yishmael only understands physical strength.November 28, 2022 4:42 pm at 4:42 pm #2143062
Of course there have been Jewish individuals who were physically strong but by an large it’s not our main attribute. We just learned this past pasha that there’s a dynamic הקול קול יעקב ביד וידים ביד עשיו.November 29, 2022 1:28 pm at 1:28 pm #2143304ToShmaParticipant
Above all, the title should state PHYSICAL strength. Especially, that in Judaism לא בחיל ולא בכל כי אם ברוח.
As to the subject of physical strength as in Rafael Halperin, etc.
Please see Rambam De’ot 4, so much about making exercises, especially before eating…November 29, 2022 10:45 pm at 10:45 pm #2143485
lakewhutהקול קול יעקב ביד וידים ביד עשיו. ”
-We dont go out proactively in physical assault but we are commanded to defend ourselves. הבא להרגך השכם להורגו. I dont know why mods made me type this a second time. They must have thought Im trying to change meanings of pesukim. All over Torah/Nach we defended ourselves by prayer yes, but also with physical force. We are in a physical realm after all.November 29, 2022 11:37 pm at 11:37 pm #2143497
So?November 29, 2022 11:37 pm at 11:37 pm #2143498ToShmaParticipant
The רבים בעד מעטים was through Ruchniyus. The physical weaponry – it’s just a cosmetic cover and a TOOL. An instrument. Above all: we should not hail physicality.
We are the עם הספר.December 1, 2022 1:56 pm at 1:56 pm #2143989DaMosheParticipant
ToShma: agreed that we shouldn’t hail physicality. That was what the Greeks did. They viewed the physical body as worthy of being shown off. They held contests to display physical prowess.
We don’t believe in that. However, that doesn’t mean we don’t believe in being fit. We are commanded to safeguard our health. Being in good condition is a big step towards that. We just don’t need to showcase it.December 1, 2022 9:03 pm at 9:03 pm #2144139
Daf in Nedarim 38 says that Navi has to be strong, rich, wise, and humble, using example of Moshe.
Many people love quoting the humble part, but it is at the end of the list (others have to be achieved first). This would enable him to convince other people of his message: people will respect him and see that he know things.
This idea also touches on the topic of observant Yidden in Israel influencing the others – not be being weak, poor and uneducated.December 1, 2022 9:56 pm at 9:56 pm #2144154
DaMoshe-thats exactly what i was sayingDecember 2, 2022 3:00 am at 3:00 am #2144203yungermanSParticipant
Good so for help in everything you listed becoming wise,
strong, Humble and healthy like Moshe Rabeinu our leader, turn directly to our loving father Hashem king of kings ruler of the entire world for help and not to your calories or other food to try to convince you that it gives you strength when we all know that in truth our strength really comes directly from Hashem like we thank Hashem for it every morning. Like Sam Klein Wrote earlier.December 2, 2022 9:22 am at 9:22 am #2144235DaMosheParticipant
yungermanS: is that really what you believe? That we don’t need to do any of our own hishtadlus? That we can ignore everything and Hashem will give us what we need?
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