February 8, 2009 7:57 am at 7:57 am #638197AnotherrandompersonParticipant
This looks like it could get more interesting over time. I am an avid fan of music, but much of the 80’s and 90’s “Jewish” music I listened to in the past sounded way too overproduced for my ear. I have not listened to the mainstream of Jewish music since that time, but may give it a shot when I am in a part of the world where it exists (the local music here is a bit more… Arabian/Euro…). I hope that it has changed.February 9, 2009 1:56 am at 1:56 am #638198
I just got this dvar halacha sent to my mailbox today:
Halacha: Can a Chazan use a Sweet Goyish Medley during Davening, for ex. Kedusha or Hallel, to Inspire the Congregation?
This is debated amongst the Poskim. Some maintain it is permissible (Yechav’e Da’as 2, 5), while others hold it is forbidden and even an abomination to use Goyish tunes for our Tefiilos (Tzitz Eliezer 13, 12; Vayashev Ha’Yam 1). All agree, however, that melodies which the Goyim play or sing in their houses of worship are forbidden to be used in our Shuls (see also L’horos Nosson 10, 14)
One thing people here quote is the idea of “nitzotzos”, of holy sparks being reclaimed. Kabbalah also has the concept of “klipos”, or tumah that can never be kashered. No matter how many chumros you slaughter a pig with, it’s still treif. There is also some music that can never be kashered. As for the exact gedarim, it can’t be given. Simon and Garfunkel composed many heartfelt tunes from their Jewish neshamos. Does that make the tunes kosher? Is the music of Felix Mendelsohn automatically kosher even if written for a church? Banning much of today’s Jewish music is counterproductive,though, and as long as it’s not a veidas znus (like the Jewish concerts at treif nightclubs), it’s better to let it go.February 9, 2009 3:12 am at 3:12 am #638199Itzik_sMember
As for the exact gedarim, it can’t be given.
Well, I would think that a song, if you call it that, with words that advocate misogyny and disrespect to law enforcement officials, (aka gangsta rap) is beyond kashering LOL.February 9, 2009 3:23 pm at 3:23 pm #638200cantoresqMember
To those who believe that contemporary “Jewish music” is distinctly Jewish becuase it quotes from the Bible, pleae answer this: Is the song, To everything Turn Turn Turn There is a Season by the Byrds Jewish music? It too quotes the Bible, Kohelet chap 3 to be specific. What about Don Maclean’s By the Waters of Babylon? How about Handel’s Messiah?February 13, 2009 4:14 pm at 4:14 pm #638201cherrybimParticipant
Jothar: Your halachik presentations and expertise are quite impressive. I was waiting for Mayan_Dvash’s sources but you came through for him.February 13, 2009 7:11 pm at 7:11 pm #638202
Cherrybim, I thank you for your kind words.February 15, 2009 1:24 am at 1:24 am #638203tzippiMember
To me, a major reason not to use Simon and Garfunkel, or some of the prettier Beatles, say, is that people won’t hear the words of Lecha Dodi, they’ll hear the secular songs.
When a rebbe of old bought a tune he happened to have heard from a shepherd, that tune wasn’t necessarily something that was part of the hamon am’s conscience.February 16, 2009 2:26 pm at 2:26 pm #638205
Cherry: I got this info from a friend who is in the business. I haven’t checked out the sources, but you are welcome to. Check out Rav Matisyahu Chaim Solomon in a sicha Zamru Limaskil in his Sefer Matnos Chaim, then go on to Rav Yaakov Meir Shechter in a Sefer called Bein Yisrael L’Amim. Alot of Syrian Chachamim speak about this as well.February 16, 2009 2:27 pm at 2:27 pm #638206
Cherry: I got this info from a friend who is in the business. I haven’t checked out the sources, but you are welcome to. Check out Rav Matisyahu Chaim Solomon in a sicha Zamru Limaskil in his Sefer Matnos Chaim, then go on to Rav Yaakov Meir Shechter in a Sefer called Bein Yisrael L’Amim. Alot of Syrian Chachamim speak about this as well.February 16, 2009 3:54 pm at 3:54 pm #638207cherrybimParticipant
WOW! Such lomdus, but you’re making me do the work.
How about a summary when you get a chance?February 16, 2009 8:52 pm at 8:52 pm #638208
The credit is not mine.February 16, 2009 9:42 pm at 9:42 pm #638209teenMember
haha i have a freind who decided he is going to take jewish music tunes and put words to makea nonjewish cd just thought it would b funny if somone didFebruary 17, 2009 1:44 am at 1:44 am #638210syriansephardiMember
Which of shwekeys songs are taken from a non jewish tune???
Ames: my teacher (who is one of the gedolei hadors grandaughter) taught us that its the TUNE of the song that gets to the heart, the words do too but the tune has a bigger affectFebruary 17, 2009 1:48 am at 1:48 am #638211
There are videos of various goyim singing “hentelach”, carlebach, and Schwekey’s Racheim.February 17, 2009 4:33 am at 4:33 am #638212cantoresqMember
Which of shwekeys songs are taken from a non jewish tune???
Ames: my teacher (who is one of the gedolei hadors grandaughter) taught us that its the TUNE of the song that gets to the heart, the words do too but the tune has a bigger affect
Or as the einikel of the Apter Rebbe said: “It’s not the text of Kol Nidre than matters, rather it’s the melody.”February 17, 2009 5:44 am at 5:44 am #638213
syriansephardi: i was once in a store-think it was old navy, and i heard shwekey’s song MA MA MA playing!!! only thing it wasn’t shwekey’s song, it was ”ma ma ma my cowboy boots” playing!!! i gatta tell ya, it sounded exactly like his song playing!!!February 17, 2009 6:05 am at 6:05 am #638214qwertyuiopMember
asdfghjkl: i forgot which poster it was, but it different poster said that i think on the first page.$February 17, 2009 6:46 am at 6:46 am #638215
qwertyuiop: i actually once mentioned it before, on a different thread abt music!!! think in noitallmr’s thread abt fave singers!!!February 17, 2009 7:25 am at 7:25 am #638216qwertyuiopMember
asdfghjkl: sorry, my bad.$February 17, 2009 6:27 pm at 6:27 pm #638217
qwertyuiop: no prob!!!February 17, 2009 7:46 pm at 7:46 pm #638218areivimzehlazehParticipant
re: the tune and not the lyrics. Yes- tiz the intentions of the composer and therefore the feeling of the tune that gets passed along and absorbed
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