October 31, 2019 8:34 am at 8:34 am #1795882GadolhadorahParticipant
Just over 100 years ago, Oscar Strauss made history of sorts by becoming the first jewish Cabinet officer (serving as Teddy Roosevelt’s Sec of Commerce. A few years later, Brandeis became the first Jewish Supreme court justice. There were also Jews serving as senior advisors to Presidents going back to George Washington. However, there is really limited evidence that having Jews in high places really has resulted in benefits to the Jewish Community in the U.S. or globally (e.g. considier Henry Morgenthau’s role during WWII). From a purely parochial perspective, what are the pros/cons these days of having Yidden serve in the cabinet or other senior roles. I come away sort of agnostic thinking they should serve if they believe in, and support, the President’s program but otherwise its really not a issue for the Jewish community as a whole. I don’t buy into the the frequently invoked argument that Yidden will be blamed for bad outcomes (and risk promoting anti-semitism) but never really get the credit for positive outcomes. Trump’s middle-east negotiating team of three “frum” yidden (Greenblatt, Friedman and Kushner) seem to have been unable to move the peace process forward with the growing criticism that having an all Jewish/pro-Israel negotiating team doomed the effort from the beginning.October 31, 2019 9:32 am at 9:32 am #1796045☕️coffee addictParticipant
It’s not good for Jews to be in high places
Just ask Ilan Ramon
But seriously, the Arab world has never been closer to the state of Israel until now and that’s partially due to the “Jews in high places”October 31, 2019 9:32 am at 9:32 am #1796043
You probably should differentiate between Orthodox and non-Orthodox.October 31, 2019 2:07 pm at 2:07 pm #1796160
You probably should differentiate between Orthodox and non-Orthodox.
Why? the world doesnt in fact a Non-Halachic jew in a high place is treated by them the same as a halachic jew and if this non-halachic jew does good or bad, we are rewarded or punished for their actionsOctober 31, 2019 5:35 pm at 5:35 pm #1796229
The English term for a non-halachic Jew is a gentile.October 31, 2019 7:27 pm at 7:27 pm #1796380MDGParticipant
I don’t think it makes a difference for world Jewry whether there are Jews in high places or not. The fact that the Arab world is closer to the Jews now is either out of necessity, because of Iran, or they realize we don’t pose a threat, and possibly we can be value.
I think a parallel example could be with President Obama. Having a black man of a highest office in the country did nothing for the common black manOctober 31, 2019 9:01 pm at 9:01 pm #1796418
Someone who has a Jewish father is not a halachic jew, but if such a person commits a crime, people will blame jews for itNovember 4, 2019 4:56 pm at 4:56 pm #1797279hujuParticipant
The Jews I know in Denver are really good skiers and pretty good long-distance runners when closer to sea level.November 4, 2019 4:56 pm at 4:56 pm #1797273hujuParticipant
To Joseph: Non-halachic Jews are Jews, not gentiles. Where in Torah does it support your statement? Perhaps you should realize that non-halachic Jews are an opportunity.November 4, 2019 10:13 pm at 10:13 pm #1797331
huju: A person with a Jewish father and a gentile mother is a gentile. Just as much a gentile as Bill Clinton is. A person who converted through the Conservative or Reform movement is a gentile. Just as much a gentile as John F. Kennedy is.
All four of the above examples are halachicly gentiles.November 4, 2019 10:13 pm at 10:13 pm #1797333☕️coffee addictParticipant
Do you realize what you said
“Non-halachic Jews are Jews”
Who says they’re Jews? Certainly not the rabbanim who we have HALACHA from
The only person that I can think of that “holds” this is hujuNovember 4, 2019 10:14 pm at 10:14 pm #1797344yehudayonaParticipant
Joseph and huju are obviously talking about two different things. Joseph is referring to people who non-Jews consider Jews but are not Jews according to halacha. Huju is talking about Jews who don’t follow halacha (i.e. non-frum Jews).November 4, 2019 10:15 pm at 10:15 pm #1797349BillyweeParticipant
It’s funny you mentioned Strauss and not much benefit. Strauss was not appointed because of “Jews” and “Commerce” It was because Ellis Island was under the Dept. of Commerce. This was a time when tons of Russian Jews were fleeing persecution and looming wars. With Strauss in charge the officers had the attitude of making it work. Not denying a Jew entry over a petty little typo or a missing minor document. Hundreds of thousands (it may have been over a million) of Jews came here under these favorable conditions. One Yom Kippur Strauss didn’t show up in shul. When asked where he was he said he had to go to work to prevent the deportation of 7,000 Russian Jews.
This is just 1 example of how having Jews in high places can provide tremendous benefit to the Jews community.
Shout out to Teddy Roosevelt, he was a real mensch.November 4, 2019 10:38 pm at 10:38 pm #1797379☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
Joseph and huju are obviously talking about two different things.
I think huju knows exactly what Joseph meant. All he needs to do is read the thread (it’s not that long).November 4, 2019 10:39 pm at 10:39 pm #1797381☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
Although he’s probably pretending that he didn’t.November 4, 2019 11:36 pm at 11:36 pm #1797411GadolhadorahParticipant
Billywee: Thank you!!! very informative and something I had not heard before.November 5, 2019 8:13 am at 8:13 am #1797450YosselehParticipant
I’m not knowledgeable about Jews who’ve climbed Mount Everest. That being said, whether a Jew lives on a mountain or in a valley, it makes no difference. High places, low places- it’s all the same.November 5, 2019 9:20 am at 9:20 am #1797521Takes2-2tangoParticipant
You probably should differentiate between Orthodox and non-Orthodox.
——————————————chassidim dont consider them selves orthodox. They consider themselves chasidim, which is a whole different breed of Yiddishkiet. Ask most chasidim if they are orthodox and they willtell u ,no im chasdidish.November 6, 2019 9:42 am at 9:42 am #1797834
Its not exactly true that a Non-halachic jew and Bill Clinton are the same gentile
If Bill Clinton tried to convert we would try very hard to discourage him, if a Zera Yisroel tries to convert we do not discourage him as much (if it all)November 6, 2019 11:49 am at 11:49 am #1797842
A goy with a Jewish father is much worse than a goy with two gentile parents. As the first goy was born through sin by his father grievously conceiving him through an illegal (terrible aveira) of the worse kind. We do not and should not treat the first type of goy any better in regards to conversion than the second type of goy.November 6, 2019 12:53 pm at 12:53 pm #1797918
I do not say this is unanimous as Im sure its not, but Rav Ovadiah Yosef and Chabad do say to convert the Zera Yisroel, there might be others as well , but I dont know and Im sure there are those who say they are no different than you everyday non-jew, but there is certainly competent Poskim to rely to make an easier conversion for them
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