January 30, 2022 2:28 pm at 2:28 pm #2056063
He’s the 45th.
BidenJanuary 30, 2022 3:17 pm at 3:17 pm #2056068ujmParticipant
Grover Cleveland was both the 22nd and the 24th president. He is counted twice since his two terms were non-consecutive.
Just like Donald Trump can be both the 45th and the 47th president.January 30, 2022 3:17 pm at 3:17 pm #2056072moishekapoiehParticipant
grover cleveland was elected twice, but his second term was after a different presidentJanuary 30, 2022 3:18 pm at 3:18 pm #2056093Commonsense1Participant
Grover Cleveland is counted twice cause his two terms weren’t consecutive one after they other. 22&24
#historyclass!January 30, 2022 3:18 pm at 3:18 pm #2056086hujuParticipant
To the OP: You listed Cleveland only once, he served one term after Benjamin Harrison in addition to one term before Benjamin Harrison. He is commonly counted as the 22nd and 24th president. That may or not make sense, but that is how the historians count presidents.January 30, 2022 5:00 pm at 5:00 pm #2056108ujmParticipant
I always knew that after much hard work of making convincing and historically and factually accurate comments, that I would finally be able to count huju as one of my legends of followers who agree with my posts.January 30, 2022 5:01 pm at 5:01 pm #2056110RebYid613Participant
YaJanuary 30, 2022 5:03 pm at 5:03 pm #2056119TS BaumParticipant
In reality, he is the 45th person who was elected (if he was actaully elected) president. But when you count them formally, he is 46th, as everyone felt the need to express the answer in their own way, that grover cleveland was president twice non-consecutively.January 30, 2022 8:15 pm at 8:15 pm #2056142
Well, if you listen to the crazy pillow guy, Trump is still the President so Biden doesn’t even count.
Better factoid….did you know that originally, the President and VP candidates ran separately
and the presidential candidate who received the most electoral votes won the presidency; the runner-up became the vice president. In 1796, this meant that the president and the vice president (Adams and Jefferson) were from different parties and had quite different political views to say the least. The adoption of 12th Amendment presumably solved this problem by allowing each party to nominate their “team” for president and vice president.”
Sadly, as the Trumpkopf discovered, the constitution does NOT guarantee that the VP must be a “team player” with respect to certifying their “reelection”January 30, 2022 8:16 pm at 8:16 pm #2056140LostsparkParticipant
He’s not regardless.January 30, 2022 9:58 pm at 9:58 pm #2056207
The only team-player VP in recent years was Dick Cheney. Pence tried, but had a difficult boss. All others for the last 40 years were used to win elections and then sent to pasture.January 31, 2022 9:18 am at 9:18 am #2056282anIsraeliYidParticipant
TS Baum – you are incorrect that Biden is the 45th person elected president – he is only the 41st.
Presidents James Tyler, Andrew Johnson, Chester Arthur, and Gerald Ford were never elected president, and in fact, Ford was never even elected vice-president.
an Israeli YidJanuary 31, 2022 9:19 am at 9:19 am #2056283
AAQ: In a number of STATES, the Governor and Lt Gov/AG run on separate lines so we frequently have the AG refusing to defend the Governor’s legal position on a new law or executive order the AG of the other party deems “unconstitutional”. We also have the relatively new practice of state legislatures hiring outside counsel to defend previously enacted laws where the incoming governor or AG won’t defend. However, the Lt. Governor in most states is relatively powerless except under weird circumstances.
For example, in Idaho, there are two right-wing Republican crazies serving as Governor/Lt. Gov. When the Gov (the more “moderate” of the two) went out of town, the acting Governor (aka the Lt. Gov) issued emergency executive orders revoking the real Governor’s executive orders on stuff like masks, etc). When the real governor returned home, he “reversed the reversals”. After two or three rounds of this circus, he simply stopped telling the Ltl Governor when he was heading to the airport.January 31, 2022 9:58 am at 9:58 am #2056324
What about Nelson Rockefeller was never elected Vice President?January 31, 2022 12:54 pm at 12:54 pm #2056363
When Spiro Agnew resigned, Nixon appointed Gerard Ford as his Vice President. When Richard Nixon resigned, Ford became President and appointed Nelson Rockefeller as his Vice President. When running again, Ford dropped Rockefeller for Bob Dole and lost the election to Jimmy Carter, so Ford was never elected President or Vice President.January 31, 2022 5:44 pm at 5:44 pm #2056455WolfishMusingsParticipant
In reality, he is the 45th person who was elected
I’m afraid that’s not true. He’s the 45th person to serve in the office.
The following people were never elected President, yet served in the office:
Chester A. Arthur
It should be noted that Ford was never elected to the Presidency or the Vice Presidency.
The WolfJanuary 31, 2022 5:46 pm at 5:46 pm #2056453
You guys might know history, but your linguistic skills need practice.
Good thing you frequent the coffee room.
You may have noticed that this thread (as of now) says “12” in the voices (a reference to “posters”) column, but “15” in the posts. That, even though ujm and GH both have multiple, non-successive posts. Interruption doesn’t turn someone into another person, and it doesn’t turn them into a different president.January 31, 2022 6:36 pm at 6:36 pm #2056469
If the President sits in consecutive terms in the Oval Office, he is not counted, however, as long as he sits newly (not in the previous term) even not elected is counted.April 25, 2023 2:47 pm at 2:47 pm #2183969
I was wrong. My new research indicates that Joseph Robinette Biden Jr. is indeed, unfortunately, the 46th President of the United States, following
TrumpApril 25, 2023 7:54 pm at 7:54 pm #2184025midwesternerParticipant
Who is Atchison?April 25, 2023 8:10 pm at 8:10 pm #2184026midwesternerParticipant
Until the adoption of the Twentieth Amendment in 1933, presidential and congressional terms began and ended at noon on March 4. In 1849 March 4 fell on a Sunday. On the morning of March 4, President James Polk signed the last of the session’s legislation at the White House and at 6:30 a.m. recorded in his diary, “Thus closed my official term as President.” The Senate, having been in session all night, adjourned sine die at 7:00 a.m. President-elect Zachary Taylor, in observance of the Christian Sabbath, preferred not to conduct his inauguration on Sunday, March 4, and the ceremony was delayed until the next day. On Monday, March 5, Taylor took the oath of office on the Capitol’s east front portico and the transition of power was complete.3
The Inauguration of Gen. Zachary Taylor, 1849
The inaugural ceremonies for President Zachary Taylor took place on the east portico of the Capitol on March 5, 1849, one day after the expiration of his predecessor’s term.
Library of Congress
But if President Polk’s term ended on March 4 at noon, and Zachary Taylor was not sworn in until noon on March 5, who was president on March 4? Under the Presidential Succession Act of 1792 the Senate president pro tempore immediately followed the vice president in the line of presidential succession. Had Atchison been president from noon on March 4 to noon on March 5?
s there any truth to the idea that Atchison was the chief executive for a day? No. Atchison himself did not take the idea seriously. He wrote in 1880 that “I never for a moment acted as President of the U.S.” Congress did not make any determinations about who was president on March 4, and Atchison certainly did not sign official paperwork, but he did have some fun with it. He later joked that because of the long nights in session the previous days, he might have slept through his “term” except that his friends woke him to congratulate him and seek patronage jobs for their friends. “I recollect,” he said in 1889, “that Senator Mangum of North Carolina suggested that I make him secretary of state.” He liked to say that his presidency had been “the honestest administration this country ever had.”5
Letter Written by David Rice Atchison (D-MO), ca.1880, Addressing the Myth that he was President for One Day
In 1880, Atchison wrote in a letter, “I never for a moment acted as President of the U.S.”
Shapell Manuscript Foundation
In 1925 historian George Haynes—an authority on the Senate—dismissed the claims of Atchison’s presidency. The clearest indication that Atchison was not president, he noted, was the fact that Atchison’s existing term as senator and, more importantly, as president pro tempore, had ended at noon on March 4. The position of president pro tempore was, in fact, vacant. Atchison was not elected to the position again until the Senate’s special session convened at noon on March 5. Minutes later the president and vice president took their oaths.April 25, 2023 8:10 pm at 8:10 pm #2184030
Participant, who is Atchison?April 25, 2023 8:24 pm at 8:24 pm #2184086
David Atchinson was “President” for a dayApril 25, 2023 8:38 pm at 8:38 pm #2184093
According to some (and disputed by most historians)James Polk’s presidency ended on March 3rd. Zachary Taylor had been elected to succeed Polk. March 3rd was on a Sunday and Taylor’s “shomer shabbos” religious convictions would not allow him to take the oath of office on a Sunday. Therefore, with Polk’s term ended and Taylor refusing to be sworn in, Atchison, as as President pro tem of the Senate became president for the day.April 26, 2023 10:04 am at 10:04 am #2184256hujuParticipant
To ujm: If Trump becomes the 45th and 47th presidents of the US, how many US presidents will be colossal jerks, 1 or 2?April 26, 2023 10:38 am at 10:38 am #2184296👑RebYidd23Participant
The number of presidents and the number of presidencies are allowed to differ.April 26, 2023 12:30 pm at 12:30 pm #2184365ubiquitinParticipant
“He is counted twice since his two terms were non-consecutive.”
I never understood that:
Counting Presidents can be done by counting people in which case Biden is the 45th person to serve as President
If we count terms. Then Washington was President twice, he won 1788, 1792 Adams was the third president Jefferson the 4th and 5th etc .
Why do terms matter only when non-consecutive. Either count people or termsApril 26, 2023 1:27 pm at 1:27 pm #2184398
“If Trump becomes the 45th and 47th presidents of the US, how many US presidents will be colossal jerks, 1 or 2?”
In fairness, there were other Presidents who might be deemed “colossal jerks”. A recent survey of journal articles by the American Historical Society found that Warren Harding, Ulysses Grant, Franklin Pierce, James Buchanan, Zachary Taylor and Andrew Johnson were the overwhelming choice of historians as the “worst presidents in American history. Having said that, one can challenge the notion that being among the “worst presidents” is synonymous with being a “colossal jerk”. Clearly, the Trumpkopf would satisfy both criteria although there are some who were failures at leadership but not necessarily jerks.uApril 26, 2023 10:28 pm at 10:28 pm #2184606
Trump is way higher on the jerk scale than on worst scale. The only people who are not happy with his policies are those who would disagree with anything Republican or those who claim that results are good, but he is not the direct cause of them.April 27, 2023 6:22 pm at 6:22 pm #2184976
Article II, Section I, Clause 8 of the Constitution requires the President to be sworn in. It does not say that his Presidency is contingent on the oath. Hence, Atchison became President despite not having taken the oath.
“In 1880, Atchison wrote in a letter, “I never for a moment acted as President of the U.S.””
Acting as President certainly is not required to be the President. With your argument, you can say that Biden is also not the President.April 27, 2023 8:53 pm at 8:53 pm #2184993☕️coffee addictParticipant
NOT MY PRESIDENT!
😂😂😂😂April 27, 2023 10:15 pm at 10:15 pm #2185008
CA: he may not be YOUR president but he has and is exercising all the powers of the Presidency so you can blissfully ignore him but that is really irrelevant to what is happening in the real world.April 27, 2023 11:02 pm at 11:02 pm #2185027
A good thought – why are we all fighting for the “right“ President – why not one President for one half of the country, and another – for another, and everyone will be happy?
This is not (just) a joke: first, one of the original considerations for US Constitution was to have a 3–person Presidency, representing North, Middle, and South. More seriously, we have a federal system where everyone can live in a state with a preferred governor. On many cultural issues, you have a choice between complaining or moving to a state you like.
Shift towards more grandiose federal power created current situation where we all need to fight for federal offices. A lot of issues that President run on (right to life, arms, economic policies, education, environment, taxes) could be resolved at state level, leading to the Presidential campaign focusing on international affairs.
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