Judicial reform poll

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  • #2178210
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    There is a poll on the main site asking “ Do you agree with the decision by Netanyahu and Ben-Gvir to back down and postpone Judicial reform?”

    With 60% stating no (so far out of 2393 votes) I voted yes, and the reason being, I believe, is because the government isn’t explaining it well, they need better PR and then you won’t see the massive protests in the street (like commercials or ads in magazines stating “do you feel the court has too much control? And then show cases where people can agree with the statement, or something like that)

    What are your reasons for voting no?

    #2178264
    Yserbius123
    Participant

    I would vote “No”.

    Although the Beit Din Gadol has way too much power, pushing them into this leftist powerhouse that can and will fight the Knesset on everything, Netanyahu’s “reforms” basically cut out their legs from under them and are clearly just his way of trying to stay PM when huge swaths of the country hate his guts.

    #2178332
    jackk
    Participant

    I want to know how many of the responders are Israeli.
    If they aren’t, then please stop meddling into Israeli politics.

    #2178331
    akuperma
    Participant

    The real question is to ask supporters if they are willing to support the judicial reform if the price is the destruction of the Israeli economy and a severe undermining of the the zionist military capacity.

    Like it or not, the hilonim (who hate us, much more than they hate the Arabs) are what makes Israel a modern industrialized nation whose technological advantages and strong economy are what make Israel a significant regional power (and whose secular leadership is strongly supported by most Americans of Jewish descent and by the largest political party in the USA).

    Only a haredi who is willing to live in an autonomous community within an Islamic state (cf: the late Ottoman Empire) would see any viable alternative to the status quo.

    #2178548
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    @jackk,

    Are you really comparing anonymous posters with political leaders?

    #2178545
    besalel
    Participant

    coffee addict: are you sure the rioters were not just using the reforms as a pretext to protest losing the elections? if that was the case, no amount of hasbara would have been enough.

    jackk: israel is a country of the jews so every jew has the right to meddle (to a certain extent) in the affairs of israel. obviously non-israelis cannot make the place unhabitable with their meddling – but all jews should have some say.

    akuperma: what you say about the telavivians being the engine of the economy is true but only because they boxed out the rest of the society who the telavivians see as sub-citizens. As for the army, the telavivians do not serve in combat roles. They go to the army and serve in the choir or sit at some desk. the national religious, the russians and the druze are the combat soldiers.

    #2178585
    SQUARE_ROOT
    Participant

    The members of Israel’s Supreme Court were NOT ELECTED by anyone, yet they have the power to overrule ANY elected government official.

    Even worse, nobody has the power to overrule ANY decision of Israel’s Supreme Court.

    Israel’s Supreme Court has unlimited power and is not accountable to anyone.

    #2178605
    vote
    Participant

    what should they explain in their PR campaign? their not protesting the actual judicial reforms, their protesting the fact that they will lose the only government branch that is under their leadership…. if they lose the courts they lose their whole power! they will never back down!

    #2178607

    Talmidei chachamim merabim shalom… Religious community was on a defensive from secularism for a long time. As they are stronger now, they should think how to approach their brothers with wisdom and patience and correct things so that more people are happy about that. Do I know how to get there? I don’t.

    #2178652
    Doing my best
    Participant

    It made a lot of sense to delay it. When you change the foundation of a countries governing system you can’t do it in the heat of the moment. You have to take things slowly, not just rush it through. If you rush it through, it look very much like an autocratic power grab even if it is actually expanding Democracy. When it comes to things like this it’s all about the optics.
    Politically speaking, what has to happen now for the Reforms to go through is the right must hold protests in support of the reforms in a way that will bring international headlines too. -Namely shutting down the country all over again. This will show the world that there is a significant amount of the population that feels that these reforms are actually saving Democracy in Israel, and that the world should therefore stop making it their business as to which way it should go.

    #2178707
    huju
    Participant

    I don’t live in Israel so I did not “vote” in the poll. Some of my Israeli mishpachah are tired of Bibi and do not support his proposal. Democracy requires ground rules and an independent judiciary to apply and interpret them.

    #2178681
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Doing,

    Like Jan 6? The news media will have a field day with it showing it as far right extremism protesting

    #2178722
    jackk
    Participant

    CA and Besalel,

    Anonymous posters who don’t live in Israel and don’t have to deal with the current situation, need to realize that their vote on this matter is not on the same level as Israelis. The poll results are thus inconsequential until you divide the Israeli’s and non-Israeli’s.

    The opinions of anonymous non-Israeli’s are nowhere near the level of actual decisions that Netanyahu and Ben-Gvir, who are responsible for what goes on in Israel, had to make.
    I am sure Netanyahu and Ben-Gvir are laughing at the poll.

    #2178741
    akuperma
    Participant

    Besalel: While the “grunts” (a mid-20th century American term for ground forces, usually infantry) are increasing right-wing, the high tech (as well as American support) is what keeps Israel safe from attack from Iran and any major power whose intervention would include nuclear weapons. It is the high tech types in the IDF who are threatening to mutiny. While the “right” would win the ground war in a civil war, the country would be horribly vulnerable to someone such as Russia or China or Pakistan choosing to wipe Israel at a distance in order to support throughout the Islamic world.

    P.S. The only sort of compromise that might work would involve allowing the upper class to be an autonomous minority with a Jewish state (we let them be frei, and they don’t object to us being frum). The would mean an military that operates as if everyone was frum, with special secular units for those who can’t stand kosher food or not doing melachos on Shabbos, secular “hesder” institutions or them to study their culture, and letting the seculars (regardless of whether they are Jews according to halacha) marry whomever and whatever they want, and even allow the secular to kill their own babies.
    Whether such a compromise would interest the seculars is questionable, since a major theme of the zionist dream was always to purge Torah for Jewish life. However as the current crisis has shown, no matter how frum the average Israeli becomes over time, the economic elite are the ones who run the show, leaving Israel as both unstable and undemocratic.

    #2178740
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    “I am sure Netanyahu and Ben-Gvir are laughing at the poll.“

    They’re probably not (they probably don’t even know or care about it) but the rest of your comment makes sense if the point of the poll is to garner change, which I don’t feel the reason for the poll is, I think it’s just for YWN to know what it’s viewers think

    #2178797
    jackk
    Participant

    CA,

    Please explain why YWN wants to know this info ? This is not an election where everyone gets to vote and the result of the poll is worthless.

    #2178842
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Jackk,

    Not sure where you live but in my community we get a newspaper called “the Jewish home” and every week they ask their readers (those that asked to be included) a question like “what’s your favorite flavor of ice cream” or “are you planning on going away for Pesach”

    This isn’t any different

    #2178848
    jackk
    Participant

    CA,

    Then we agree.
    Have a Chag Kosher V’sameach.

    #2178915
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Thank you jackk you too,

    Not sure what you’re agreeing to, but whatever…..

    #2179508
    Avi K
    Participant

    I do not believe all he scare stories bandied about by leftists. In fact, several investors expressed interest in investing in Israel and did not even mention the reforms. However, if a consensus can be reached, it will be better. If we can finally have a constitution, it will be even better. The problem is that Lapid, Gantz & Co. want to oust Netanyahu more than anything.

    The Knesset reconvenes after Yom haAtrzmaut. The reforms are already tabled and ready for enactment. If there is no progress, Netanyahu can pass them and blame the Opposition.

    #2179572
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    The strength of EY’s bipartisan political in Congress is such that even if Bibi proceeds with these “reforms” there will be very few consequences to the Israel-U.S. relationship although there will be loud dissents from a substantial portion of the center/left wing of the Democratic party.

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