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I have heard that Rabbanim suggest one to celebrate July 4th (which I’m assuming just means flying a USA flag around… I don’t really know how to celebrate the holiday) because of hakaras hatov to the USA as a malchus shel chessed. There have been so many freedoms that as Jews we have taken advantage of to serve HaKadosh Baruch Hu that came about because of this country, that it’s important to show our hakaras hatov.
Why don’t many Jews offer that same hakaras hatov to Medinas Yisro’el? I’m not saying it’s hatchala lege’ulasa (I have no idea if it is or it isn’t, I’m assuming we’ll find that out when Mashi’ach comes bimeheira beyameinu), but the same freedoms we got with the USA, we got with Medinas Yisro’el… in addition to the fact that we also get to serve HaKadosh Baruch Hu in Eretz Yisro’el! Obviously many of the Israeli government’s decisions are anti-Torah, and I think that’s a terrible thing, but many of Obama’s decisions are also anti-Jewish, does that mean we stop showing hakaras hatov to the USA?
In short, why don’t many Jews show hakaras hatov to Medinas Yisro’el by waving the Israeli flag on Yom Ha’Atzma’us in the same way that they would wave the United States of American flag on their Independence Day? (I heard the argument that learning Torah is enough hakaras hatov and we don’t need to show it openly, but if that’s the case then we should do the same thing in the USA too, no?)
“Why don’t many Jews offer that same hakaras hatov to Medinas Yisro’el?”
Because the medinah had no right to be created. Once they violated halacha ipso facto, they lost any right to recognition by the Torah community.
“but the same freedoms we got with the USA, we got with Medinas Yisro’el”
That’s absolutely incorrect. See how the zionist courts violated innocent father’s and mother’s right to Torah educate their children as their Rabbonim deem proper in Emmanuel, for the most recent of many many examples, and how the zionist court imprisons innocent mothers and fathers for providing a Torah chinuch to their children.
No American court ever threw fathers and mothers in jail for sending their children to the school of their choice.
Max Well,
Then why is it ok to take money from the illeagal zionist government for schools like Emmanuarl? for garbage pickup, welfare etc. Do you really think an Arab government would let chareidim riot at the drop of a hat? Look how Hamas, Iran, Sadaam etc treated Arab demonstratord.
“Once they violated halacha ipso facto, they lost any right to recognition by the Torah community.”
Ponovezh and other mosdos politely disagree with you.
Max well,
You wrote,
“Once they violated halacha ipso facto, they lost any right to recognition by the Torah community.”
In fact, much of the Torah community does not consider the creation of the medinah to be a violation of halachah. Some of the greatest rabbis in the world have been religious Zionists.
Furthermore the alternative today to “no medinah” is rule by Hamas. Do we really believe that instead of Israel having been created, we would have preferred that Palestinian Arab rule been established over Eretz Yisrael in 1948? We should all be grateful that the medinah prevents this even if the would have preferred that the government be more sympathetic towards our concerns.
You also wrote,
“No American court ever threw fathers and mothers in jail for sending their children to the school of their choice. “
There were threats of prison during the “massive resistance” days when the courts ordered the end to the racist separate but unequal school systems in the US South. However, the racists backed down in every single case and nobody actually went to prison. The court did not prevent anyone from getting a Torah education; it did, however, put an end to certain discriminatory practices *contrary* to halachah like mechitzahs between Ashkenazim and Sefardim and mandating pronunciations not based on ones’ own mesorah. We should be saluting the court and the religious judge, Hon. Edmond Levy, who promoted the settlement, not trashing them.
lesschums: They pay taxes and are entitled to receive a benefit for that.
apy: You are absolutely incorrect. They agree, yet do what they have to.
charlie: Even if you accept the blood libel of the zionists against the Torah community and believed there was discrimination (do you also believe we use Christian blood for our Matzos?), there is no basis for the zionist court to force the parents to send their children to a school they do not wish to sent them to (as the parents took their children out of the school after the zionist court forced integration with the children that have TV’s etc. in their homes). There was still no basis for the zionist court to prevent the parents from sending their children to another school (as the parents did after the court tried forcing the school to mix the less and non religious with the other school). And there was no basis for the zionist court to refuse allowing the heroic fathers and mothers from home schooling their children, as they did after the zionist court prevented them from schooling them where they chose.
So even if you accepted the blood libel as being true (despite the fact that 30+% of the Emanuel Bais Yaakov was Sephardic — including the heroic Sephardic fathers who went to prison on the orders of the the Dishon. Edmond Levy for supposedly discriminating against fellow Sephardim!), there still is no comparison to the American court action in the 50’s, as then the court was issuing orders against the school administration/local government — NOT threatening fathers and mothers with imprisonment as the evil zionists did. Even the biggest Sephardic Rov — Chachom Ovadia Yosef — condemned going to court against the Bais Yaakov, and said that person lost his chelek in Olam Haboa as a result.
Kasha: Ponovezh has nothing against the medina.
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