June 30, 2011 9:04 pm at 9:04 pm #597731GeshmakManParticipant
Just wondering how many people here will be making/attending BBQs this weekend, and if people think its Chukas HaGoyim to do so especially on Monday the 4th?
How does it compare to Thanksgiving, where there are those who view a Turkey on Thanksgiving as Goyish. Just wondering and enjoy your time off!June 30, 2011 11:53 pm at 11:53 pm #785174oomisParticipant
Of course we are. My family are all off that day, and I am extremely appreciative to this country, that gave my grandparents a home with religious freedom. Jews helped finance the Revolutionary War.June 30, 2011 11:56 pm at 11:56 pm #785175Midwest2Participant
July 4th is strictly a secular/nationalist holiday. It commemorates a political act – signing the Declaration of Independence from merry olde England, making possible the United States as we know it today, where we can show ourselves as frum Jews with pride and without fear.
When you look at it that way, observing July 4th in at least some way is a matter of Hakaras Hatov. If you don’t like barbecues, fly the American flag.June 30, 2011 11:57 pm at 11:57 pm #785176baron fritzParticipant
personally i would say that thanksgiving is more a goyishe zach and not 4th of July as its a day we declared independence from Britain and Jews were involved in that financially supporting the revolution and other smaller ways while thanksgiving is when the pilgrims finally settled they had a great feast to thank god for everything which is not exactly Jewish although my family just uses it as an excuse to get together and have great food 🙂July 1, 2011 1:56 am at 1:56 am #785178deiyezoogerMember
“Excuse, but don’t we do the same thing every Friday night and on every Yomtov? There is nothing goyish about having a nice meal and giving thanks to Hashem.”
The problem is not the idea of giving thanks to G-d, its all about the timing. Succas is called “Chag Ha’asif” the holiday when we thank G-d for the years crop. We don’t have a reason to do it when the pilgrims did.July 1, 2011 2:05 am at 2:05 am #785179GumBallMember
We go watch fireworks!!July 1, 2011 3:23 am at 3:23 am #785180mewhoParticipant
i am thankful for every paid vacation day!July 1, 2011 3:52 am at 3:52 am #785181cherrybimParticipant
Any day that I don’t have to go in and work with the chaleryaz is a Tom Yov for me.July 1, 2011 10:24 am at 10:24 am #785183basket of radishesParticipant
I am not yet sure what we will do this year though sometimes we go to a park and listen to the band or symphony and we get to see the fireworks. I may or may not do a celebration per se, but I can assure you that I will say “G-d bless America” more than a few times in my day.July 1, 2011 4:08 pm at 4:08 pm #785184tzippiMember
I’m on an email list that sends out short and sweet messages from Rabbi Avigdor Miller, and just read a great one about the fourth of July, especially in late 20th century America; I think we can extrapolate a kal v’chomer for early 21st century America.July 5, 2011 6:07 am at 6:07 am #785185HaKatanParticipant
minyan gal, the founders of this country were proud Christians, and since their concept of “God” is the trinity while yours, lihavdil, is not, what they did at that first Thanksgiving is certainly NOT what we do every Friday night and Yom Tov.
On another note, we thank Hashem at daily tefillos and other occasions, not the once a year we get around to it, so it is at least inappropriate for that reason. (Similarly, Mother’s Day and Father’s Day are also not up to par.)
July 4th, on the other hand, is completely secular and national so Christianity has nothing to do with it, presumably. Having said that, that doesn’t mean it’s therefore a mitzva to celebrate it, but simply celebrating/BBQing in a dignified manner, preferably as a seudas mitzvah, would seem to be appropriate Hakaras HaTov to this Medina Shel Chessed. Ask your LOR, of course.July 5, 2011 1:31 pm at 1:31 pm #785186ItcheSrulikMember
Hakatan: As a matter of fact, many if not most of the founders were deists.July 5, 2011 1:51 pm at 1:51 pm #785187bombmaniacParticipant
i dont know about many…many is probably untrue. jefferson was…July 5, 2011 3:38 pm at 3:38 pm #785188charliehallParticipant
‘the founders of this country were proud Christians, and since their concept of “God” is the trinity’
Many of the Founding Fathers were NOT trinitarian Christians. Adams, Franklin, Jefferson, Rush, and Paine in particular espoused what for Christians would be considered heretical views. And George Washington appears rarely if ever to have taken communion. Not until 1888 would the United States elect a person as President who was a communicant member of a (small-o) orthodox Christian church at the time of his election.July 5, 2011 3:42 pm at 3:42 pm #785189anon1m0usParticipant
Who cares if it Chukat Hagoyim or not??!!! Are you off from work and kids are still in yeshiva? Great, then celebrate!!!!:):)July 5, 2011 3:49 pm at 3:49 pm #785190zahavasdadParticipant
I am astonished so many times how little hakarat hatov we give sometimes to this countryJuly 5, 2011 6:56 pm at 6:56 pm #785191mewhoParticipant
we live in the land of the free. we should certainly be proud of it. flying the USA flag is one way of showing your pride.July 12, 2011 10:02 pm at 10:02 pm #785192baron fritzParticipant
and on 4th of july we have our own fireworks show
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