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- This topic has 17 replies, 13 voices, and was last updated 3 months, 2 weeks ago by Gadolhadorah.
February 15, 2023 12:47 pm at 12:47 pm #2166053ujmParticipant
The Goyim recently (in the last few years) came up with this term Karen for a certain type of woman. Of course, us Yidden already knew all about this long ago, and we called them a Jewish American Princess (JAP). But, truthfully, even the Goyim
already had a description for this, namely a prima donna.
So what’s new with a Karen that is different than a JAP or prima donna?February 15, 2023 3:09 pm at 3:09 pm #2166268Shimon NodelParticipant
They are your future wivesFebruary 15, 2023 4:43 pm at 4:43 pm #2166281DaMosheParticipant
You should ask to speak to a manager to clarify the difference.February 15, 2023 4:48 pm at 4:48 pm #2166285AMputtingonHaRITZParticipant
What’s new is that “Karen” has a specific (short hair businessman-esque) style associated with it as well and not just an attitude.February 15, 2023 4:48 pm at 4:48 pm #2166287NonImpeditiRationeCogitationisParticipant
The term ‘Karen’ has nothing to do with being a prima donna. It denotes a sanctimonious rule-follower and a scold, e.g. someone who would call the health department to report an ‘illegal’ kids’ sidewalk lemonade stand.February 15, 2023 6:18 pm at 6:18 pm #2166307
The term also seems to be invoked in the context of white women who invoke racist stereotypes of minorities to rationalize their fears and accuse individuals of nonexistent crimes, invasion of their “personal space” or simply breathing while black. The tag could be used in a gender-neutral context since you don’t have to be a woman to be a Karen.February 15, 2023 7:25 pm at 7:25 pm #2166357ujmParticipant
Dorah: Similarly, you have black Karen’s.February 15, 2023 10:33 pm at 10:33 pm #2166402
UJM: Absolutely correct….some minority individuals interpret normal interpersonal actions or offers of assistance as patronizing or threatening.February 15, 2023 10:35 pm at 10:35 pm #2166407Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
Of course, Jews knew Karen first – she is one of the 4 types of Nezek, the aggressive one. If Karen tries to pay only half of her damage, she needs to prove that her mother is Jewish. In this case, she is called Karen bas Karen (like mother, like daughter)February 15, 2023 10:37 pm at 10:37 pm #2166413Good to knowParticipant
Karen is applied to ANY white woman intolerant. Even a certain brown Puerto Rican has been labeled that.February 15, 2023 10:37 pm at 10:37 pm #2166414Yechi HamelechParticipant
“The term also seems to be invoked in the context of white women who invoke racist stereotypes of………”
GROAN……. Frum wokesters seriously gotta goFebruary 16, 2023 10:29 am at 10:29 am #2166534akupermaParticipant
As the term appears to be a perjorative and one used primarily to insult, should not Bnei Torah (and of course, all Yidden, especially on YWN, are Bnei Torah) refrain from using it?February 16, 2023 10:36 am at 10:36 am #2166544Avram in MDParticipant
“The term also seems to be invoked in the context of white women who invoke racist stereotypes of minorities to rationalize their fears and accuse individuals of nonexistent crimes, invasion of their “personal space” or simply breathing while black.”
That’s the sugarcoat that the left puts on it, but in reality the “Karen” meme is straight up misogyny. Some people can’t stand it when a woman dares speak up, so let’s call her a Karen and unleash the Internet shame machine! Now other women will be afraid to advocate for themselves, whether in a store, on the street, or in the hospital, lest they too be labeled a Karen. It’s insidious.
Sure, there are times when women (or men) may misinterpret situations due to prejudices or even act maliciously. And that should be rightly called out. But not by generating a stereotype that can be used as a cudgel against any woman who dares stand up for herself. Note that men who do the same aren’t called “Kens” or “Roberts”, or whatever. I don’t want my daughters to be afraid to speak up if they received inadequate service, are getting pushed around by their doctor, or to hesitate for even one second to get away from a situation or call the police if their instincts tell them there is danger.
“The tag could be used in a gender-neutral context since you don’t have to be a woman to be a Karen.”
But it’s not.February 16, 2023 11:02 am at 11:02 am #2166542hujuParticipant
To ujm: I have always believed that the term “JAP,” when referring to a Jewish woman, is offensive for a number of reasons. First of all, it is also a word used during World War II to refer to one of America’s enemies, and it was generally meant to be offensive to all Japanese, including Japanese Americans put into American concentration camps.
More generally, it sterotypes Jewish women and adolescents as privileged and spoiled. Some of them are, many are not, but “JAP” smears them all. If you and/or your acquaintances use “JAP” as often as your post implies, you are doing a disservice to Jewish women.
I once heard a Reform rabbi speak extensively about the wrongness of the term “JAP”, so, evidently, the Reform Jews get it, even if holy Jews like you do not.
“JAP” is, among other things, loshon hara.February 16, 2023 3:14 pm at 3:14 pm #2166630
A woman “standing up” for herself or her family is obviously something we should all applaud and encourage. That is NOT the issue in the Karen syndrome. As I understand it, that term was originally being applied to a narrow subset of cases where individuals engaged in baseless assumptions clearly tied to race/ethnicity to summon police to investigate the innocent behavior of a minority. Yidden have suffered enough from stereotyping and we should avoid engaging in such behavior. That does not mean we should be discouraged from seeking assistance when we feel at risk.February 17, 2023 11:21 am at 11:21 am #2166843Avram in MDParticipant
“That is NOT the issue in the Karen syndrome. As I understand it, that term was originally being applied to a narrow subset of cases where individuals engaged in baseless assumptions clearly tied to race/ethnicity to summon police to investigate the innocent behavior of a minority.”
Nah, it was a guy on the social media platform reddit who wanted to get back at his ex-wife named Karen, which then merged with older stereotypes like Becky (the privileged white woman) or Stacy (misogynistic stereotype), and went supernova because the left wing media wanted to absolutely destroy the woman who called the cops on the black birdwatcher who complained about her dog. It was never a narrow application and it has never been about racial justice. How is racial justice served by stereotyping and denigrating others? How is it served when a man follows a woman all of the way to her home because she was allegedly rude to him on the road, harassing her until she is in hysterics in front of her house, filming and doxxing her on social media, all to sell Karen T-shirts?
“Yidden have suffered enough from stereotyping and we should avoid engaging in such behavior. That does not mean we should be discouraged from seeking assistance when we feel at risk.”
The “woke” movement has a serious problem with sexism and antisemitism. To deal with the cognitive dissonance of hating some groups while professing to be anti-hate, women and Jews are said to have privilege while weaponizing their supposed victimhood to oppress others. Therefore Jewish college students reporting discrimination are accused of oppressing Palestinians. Women who dare tell their server that he messed up the order are called a Karen. This produces a chilling effect on seeking assistance when we feel at risk.February 17, 2023 12:08 pm at 12:08 pm #2166867jackkParticipant
Everyone should have a good Shabbos.
I find it amazing that the karen meme can lead to so much discussion.
Similar to a lot of terms used on the internet , there is no definitive interpretation on the source or meaning of the meme “Karen.”
Other memes that we can discuss, “Dad Jokes” , “Epic Fails” and “Doge”.February 17, 2023 3:20 pm at 3:20 pm #2166894
Avram in South of the Mason-Dixon Line: Some would argue that Karen Ha’rishon was a 21-year-old white woman named Caryn Bryant whose accusation of unwarranted flirtation from a Black teenager named Emmett Till resulted in his lynching by a group of white men in 1955.
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