Kashering Cast Iron

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  • #613570

    mordecai98
    Participant

    Can one kasher a cast iron griddle?

    #1196241


    Participant

    Yes, but it might require Libbun Gamur.

    #1196242

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    A griddle sounds like it would need libun gamur. Put it in a self clean oven on self clean, for an hour.

    #1196243

    DaMoshe
    Participant

    I asked my Rav about this recently.

    Most cast iron pans and griddles are sold already pre-seasoned, and there is no hechsher on them 99% of the time. Therefore, even a new pan/griddle should be kashered. He said that to do it, it should just be placed into your oven when you’re running a self-clean cycle. Then you can tovel it, and re-season the pan/griddle however you like.

    #1196244

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    I believe self clean cycles generally run for at least three hours, so IDK if popa’s suggestion is doable.

    #1196245

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    DY: you just cut the gas line after an hour. duh

    #1196246

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    The last time I tried cutting the gas line after an hour was right after Sandy. A bunch of people got really angry.

    #1196247

    mordecai98
    Participant

    I don’t have a self clean oven. Can I just put it in at > 500 for an hour?

    #1196248

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    no

    #1196249


    Participant

    A griddle sounds like it would need libun gamur. Put it in a self clean oven on self clean, for an hour.

    Is that hot enough? Self cleaning ovens heat to about 500 Celsius but incandescence only starts at about 525 Celsius. This seems like self cleaning ovens would only be good for Libbun Kal.

    I never put a skillet in self cleaning oven to see if it would glow.

    #1196250

    DaMoshe
    Participant

    Dash, my Rav told me that’s enough.

    #1196251

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    +1. I also asked my rav and was told to use self clean for libun gamur.

    And you’ll see when you take it out that all the seasoning is gone.

    #1196252

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant
    #1196253

    yitzyk
    Participant

    Rabbi Yisroel Reisman spoke about this one year before Pesach. He used a special industrial thermometer to test the temperature of various ovens on Self Clean mode.

    Whereas the old ovens used to get to 900 degrees, which is certainly enough, many of the newer ones DO NOT reach that high. Some of them only got to 700 degrees, which is NOT enough for Libun Gamer.

    Footnote – he also tested the temperature right at the gas burner, and actually broke the thermometer. It was MUCH higher than even a self-cleaning oven. Maybe around 1400 degrees! So another option for the Cast Iron pan is to put it on the burner (or across two burners) and keep rotating it every 12 minutes or so until every inch of it (top and bottom) has become red hot for a moment. Unlike a Mikvah, kashering can be done an inch at a time. Make sure you use pliers or heat-proof gloves to move the pan around. This can cause very bad burns.

    I don’t have a self-cleaning oven, and I have kashered pans and stove grates this way many times. More recently though I just ask my neighbor if I can add my grates into their oven when they self-clean it.

    #1196254


    Participant

    Dash, my Rav told me that’s enough.

    But he was talking about Kashering off the factory seasoning which is applied as a liquid and not heated directly on a flame. For such an application Libbun Kal is enough.

    #1196255

    DaMoshe
    Participant

    Dash: In order to (properly) season a pan, it needs to be heated in an oven. I don’t know how factory seasoning is done, but my Rav said a self-clean should be enough no matter how it’s done.

    #1196256


    Participant

    My point was that Kashering off the seasoning requires less than Kashering a griddle that became non-kosher in its use.

    #1196257

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    DaMoshe is correct. The factory seasoning is heated in an oven, and while applied as a liquid, it quickly congeals. Also, it is oil, whose liquid status is highly questionable to begin with.

    I am highly suspicious of anyone who says it only needs libun kal or hagalah. I am aware the cRc of chicago says that, and I have emailed the author of the article as well as others in the organization. He did not respond.

    #1196258

    agent
    Participant

    We just got a cast iron and we called the company about the seasoning. They said it is seasoned with oil only. We spoke to the OU and they said if it is made here and then all oil in the USA is fine. We called the company back and they said, yes it is made here and not in China. The OU said it fine to use-it doesn’t have to be kashered only Toiveled.

    #1196259

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    We just got a cast iron and we called the company about the seasoning. They said it is seasoned with oil only. We spoke to the OU and they said if it is made here and then all oil in the USA is fine. We called the company back and they said, yes it is made here and not in China. The OU said it fine to use-it doesn’t have to be kashered only Toiveled.

    The OU secretary who answered you is wrong.

    There is no reason to accept the company’s representation that it is only vegetable oil. They have incentive to say they do not use animal fat since vegetarians will prefer it. And I am not aware of any government agency that would police this, since it is all burnt up and not a food product.

    #1196260

    agent
    Participant
    #1196261

    Rebbe Yid
    Participant

    The OU said the company uses vegetable oil, not that the company said it.

    Chazer shmaltz is noisein ta’am lifgam.

    Oil is liquid (yad shochat dam)

    The fact that a liquid may or may not congeal when cooking with it (in any case oil stays liquid or burns) doesn’t mean that’s not considered cooking with a liquid.

    #1196262

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Ask your Rav, not an anonymous one.

    #1196263

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    rebbe yid:

    1. Are you agent, or a different user? How would the OU know which oil they are using?

    2. I don’t think the status of oil for tumah is relevant to the status of tzli vs. bishul.

    3. I have seasoned cast iron with oil before. The oil congeals before it carbonizes.

    Agent: So that rabbi was wrong. You should call him back and tell him.

    #1196264

    agent
    Participant

    No, we are not the same person.

    #1196265

    agent
    Participant

    I will double check with them again. I left them a message to call me.

    #1196266

    agent
    Participant

    I spoke to someone else at the OU and they said that it is best to put it in the oven on self clean for 2 hours.

    #1196268

    ZviWeiss
    Member

    Instead of “being suspicious” of a Reliable Kashrus Organization (just because you do not understand their logic), perhaps, you should simple ACCESS the article (which is available on the cRc Web site). The specific article is in the January 2012 Issue of “Sapirim”. In the article, the author explains that NORMALLY a Cast Iron Pot *will* require “real” libun (i.e., put it into a self-cleaning oven). However, the SPECIFIC case of “seasoning” where NO OTHER non-Kosher product was involved in an “exceptional” case. Citing a disagreement among the Achronim here, the author notes that in this SPECIFIC case, the Shach and R. Akiva Eiger are strict and require “real” Libun. However, the Rema, Magen Avraham, and Chasam Sofer rule that Hag’ala is sufficient and apparently, there is a consensus among Poskim to be lenient in this very specific case — where the liquid that was “cooked” in the Cast Iron was — itself — non-kosher — that Hag’ala is sufficient.

    The author is careful to point out that this is an EXCEPTIONAL case and that in the “normal” case of kashering Cast Iron, you would need “real” libun.

    #1196269

    ZviWeiss
    Member

    I have received an email from the Lodge Company. In it, they list the specific “brand(s)” of Vegetable Oil used. These Oils ARE absolutely “kosher certified” (including the transportation of these Oils). The “problem” is that the APPLICATION of these oils is NOT under any sort of supervision (as the Person from the Lodge Company reported in his email). I am GUESSING that means that the Lodge *could* substitute any form of Oil. The question here may be whether there is any “commercial” reason for the Company NOT to do any substitutions. If there is a sufficiently strong “commercial disincentive” — then it might be possible to rely upon the Company’s assertion that the only oil used is the one listed — which is kosher…

    #1196270

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    ZviWeiss: As I complained to another poster….you are responding to a thread that has been dormant for 2 years and commenting as if the thread is being currently discussed. Please be mindful that the people who posted two years ago may not remember what they said.

    #1196271

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    iacisrmma: Good thing we have records of what they said. Even if they don’t remember we can member, or something.

    Actually this thread is awesome because I was considering buying a cast iron griddle a couple months ago. The whole making it a kosher vessel thing totally didn’t dawn on me at the store. Obviously now I realize that I would still need to immerse it in a mikveh, but really wasn’t thinking of that as something to consider.

    Now that this thread came up, if I did buy one, I would need to check if putting it in the ocean would compromise the coating. Plus I would need to verify if the cast iron coating was kosher, I guess, too.

    #1196272

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    lb: and if I have a question about kashering/toveling something I ask a Rov; not consult the Coffee Room.

    #1196273

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    There are ways to tovel without using the ocean

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