December 31, 2017 3:17 pm at 3:17 pm #1440151
Anger and shalom bayis. It depends on how the research is done. Our community is afflicted with a dreaded condition. It involves the whitewashing of too much. Part of this is the “discovery” process in investigating a shidduch prospect. We tend to ask only certain people, such as a neighbor, a Rov inn a community, a former Rosh Yeshiva or Menaheles. The responses are some version of a rosy picture, without a shred of detail. You know, just garden variety, prepackaged answers. It really takes a greater effort to seek people in other positions where some more pointed questions about the above subjects can be answered with objectivity. Personally, I have done that, and I have been steered correctly every time, B”H. I have asked the challenging questions, and have gotten objective answers. This can be done if we invest the time, and dismiss the pat answers that tell us absolutely nothing. The Chofetz Chaim addresses this subject openly, and notes that even the most damaging information is not considered lashon horah, and that one must do this type of exploration.December 31, 2017 3:17 pm at 3:17 pm #1440153
You asked: “Is marrying someone who has a mental health issues something to be avoided, if possible?”
No one said that, though this does seem to be the overwhelming belief. The point here is whether one would be correct to keep this a secret until after. No one said that someone that has mental illness should never marry. It is an issue, and in deciding whether a shidduch is right for your child, you should have the information relevant to the decision. To be compelled to decide without all the facts is simply unfair.December 31, 2017 3:17 pm at 3:17 pm #1440159Eli51Participant
To the people who think hiding a mental issue may cause someone not to get married. Remember hashem has a bashert for them & if release this information after a third date or whenever your Rav tells you to release this information the perspective will accept it & probably say say it’s ok everyone has something. You should also offer the perspective match to see your psychiatrist to discuss the issue so he/she can see if can handle it or not.December 31, 2017 3:17 pm at 3:17 pm #1440160hmlParticipant
Joseph – all my kids are married. Second child? No idea what you are talking about (as usual.) But you asked a question & got an honest answer, so what are you arguing about?January 1, 2018 10:29 pm at 10:29 pm #1440810January 1, 2018 11:59 pm at 11:59 pm #1440826JJ2020Participant
In the case of many mental health disorders they can not be diagnosed in children. If the warning signs are there but ignored the person who did not warn did the wrong thing. Everything in the world after the fact is bashert. But doesn’t mean the actions were right. It doesn’t mean that it’s ok to do avoda Zara after the fact. And doesn’t mean you should stay married to a narcissist abuser bc he was diagnosed after you were married so it’s bashert.January 1, 2018 11:59 pm at 11:59 pm #1440825JJ2020Participant
Joseph – if the person is a psychopath or has narcissistic personality disorder then yes. If someone had depression and is hiding it then yes. If there is a mental health issues which they are open about, medicated and seeing s therapist and have a proven track record of stability and healthy relationships then it can work.January 1, 2018 11:59 pm at 11:59 pm #1440824
I’m glad that R. Hoffman is an avid reader of the CR. (No, I will not ask what his screen name here is.) I also appreciate he raised my point of undiagnosed illness in his article based on this thread (although he didn’t seek to answer that angle.)January 2, 2018 7:41 am at 7:41 am #1440847
It’s quite interesting..January 2, 2018 7:41 am at 7:41 am #1440848
Nothing should be kept secret in shidduchim.January 2, 2018 7:43 am at 7:43 am #1440852David111Participant
Why don’t we see more coverage of this in the Ami, Mishpacha and other publications. It’s definitely getting more coverage then in the past but it’s rare that it’s discussed in depth.January 2, 2018 11:02 am at 11:02 am #1440949
I heard a story of a guy who after a year of marriage found out his wife was for years taking daily pills for a heart condition.
His immediate reaction was: “Honey, I don’t think you should be working with that condition. The work might be too hard on your heart.”January 2, 2018 3:47 pm at 3:47 pm #1441174
Keeping mental illness a secret, whether for shidduchim or otherwise, also reinforces the idea that mental illness is taboo.January 2, 2018 5:05 pm at 5:05 pm #1441261
Is being a maniac taboo?January 2, 2018 5:16 pm at 5:16 pm #1441275
Any state of being beyond one’s control is not a social issue in itself.January 5, 2018 2:31 am at 2:31 am #1443406TrulytryingParticipant
What about someone who went to therapy and finished it fully and does he have to disclose that ?January 5, 2018 7:35 am at 7:35 am #1443494
@Trulytrying you need to ask a Rav about specific circumstances.
Therapy nowadays is really not so taboo anymore. I know many friends who went to therapy for 6 months to 2 years in their life, and I found this out after being their friend for not too long. ACTUALLY someone I went out with told me this on the first date (in context I had asked something and it was part of the answer) and it showed me in his case at least that he was:
1) Aware and listening to his emotions, and properly dealing with them to the point he went for help for a short period of time. Which meant he would be more wiling in the future to be honest with himself, when he needs help or is in the wrong in emotional areas, spiritual areas, and relationships.
2) Was a stronger person because of the experience, and learned valuable tools to deal with emotions and different things in life. He can probably better deal with life than other people now.
3) Everyone deals with hard situations in life, and often times it leaves baggage behind. We all have it, doesn’t need to be a mental illness or major abuse, it could even be just a friend who betrayed you after many years that you can’t seem to get out of your head that left your self esteem shattered. It can just be life, normal regular sad parts of life. The fact that he dealt with this situation properly shows me he is less likely to be holding other baggage behind too that isn’t dealt with, and if he is he is probably working on it.
In conclusion, whether you have to say something? Probably not. Depends what it is, ask a Rabbi.
But depending on what it was, I think it’s a POSITIVE thing to say it and will enhance the relationship between you and your date if you are already dating seriously. Once you are hitting your 4th or 5th date, you need to take risks, and you need to expose some parts of yourself in order to really connect. This is a wonderful way to do so and only shows strength in my opinion.January 7, 2018 7:33 pm at 7:33 pm #1444205
The Little I Know:
You obviously do not know a lot. Bipolar Disorder is untreatable. It can be controlled by medication. As far as Borderline personality goes. A person can be treated and cured. It takes 7 years of DBT (Dialectical Behavioral Therapy) and intense work to be officially cured. Medication helps stabilize the moods so it is “easier” to focus on implementing the skills into daily life. The therapy teaches you how to have healthy relationships, survival techniques and being mindful of your surroundings. It is true it is extremely difficult to live with someone if they are not taking their meds or going for therapy. It is still hard to live with somwone is in the middle of therapy as there is lots of trial and error stabilizing them on the medication. As well as he/she learning the ropes and rewiring the brain to communicate properly and build a life worth living.January 7, 2018 7:35 pm at 7:35 pm #1444209
I am sorry that you are going through a very difficult time with your wife. As i said to “the little i know” DBT completely changes the lifestyle of those suffering from BPD. Im afraid your wife did not care to use her skills or received the incorrect therapy to treat BPD. DBT is the only therapy that works to cure BPD. So its unfair to say that therapy never works. Marsha linehan created DBT. She herself suffered from BPD and cured herself through her set of lifeskills. Its unbelievable how those suffering from personality disorder can rewire their brains to react nonimpulsivly.
I actually find that those who have the skills of dbt downpat react more calmly than any other “normal” person out there.January 7, 2018 8:19 pm at 8:19 pm #1444230
Fme377, if you start off with “You obviously do not know a lot”, that doesn’t establish your credibility as someone knowledgeable in this area.January 7, 2018 8:27 pm at 8:27 pm #1444255
Unfortunately, i do. I have borderline personality disorder. Its not who i define myself as. I am not my disorder! Its not who i define myself as. Its just an illness i have. I have been in dbt therapy for the past 5 years of my life.January 7, 2018 8:28 pm at 8:28 pm #1444256🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
You obviously do not know a lot. Bipolar Disorder is untreatable. It can be controlled by medication.
speaking of not knowing….controlling with medication is a treatment.
There are many, many, many people with bipolar disorder who are very stable and are living very productive lives with their manic and depressive episodes far in their past.
If that is true of those with BPD, I have not yet heard of it.January 7, 2018 8:38 pm at 8:38 pm #1444262
The reason why i wrote “you obviously do not know a lot” because it was on play on words. The persons username is “little i do know”January 7, 2018 8:39 pm at 8:39 pm #1444265
I never said the person cant be stable but essentially never officially cured. They always have to be on medication. When i was given my diagnosis from a very prominent psychiatrist, he said that at least i have bpd and not bipolar disorder because bpd can be cured.January 7, 2018 9:52 pm at 9:52 pm #1444277
I beg to differ. BPD cannot be cured. With intense therapy, the person suffering with it can learn to control reactions enough to manage well. There is nothing magical about 7 years or any other time limit. One of the prominent features of BPD is significant resistance to input from others, and this sets the therapy option back several steps. Yes, I am familiar with DBT and Marsha Linehan. I am not quarreling with her method or its results. I am making a statement about BPD. Living with someone that has it is gehinom. If there is adequate motivation to get better, some sufferers of BPD can do quite well. I assume, from your comment, that you fit this category. But this benefit ends up serving too few. I would join you in wishing this help for so many others.
Bipolar disorder probably cannot be cured. I agree. There are exceptions to that which would be an academic study, and the CR is not the forum for that. Bipolar disorder is a label that contains many variants. And it is often that medicating this condition (or these conditions) is a challenge, even for the best psychopharmacologists. It is guesswork, and some make better educated guesses than others. It is not an exact science. And an issue that is a potential complication in the psychiatric field is that compliance with medications is a potential problem, more so than other aspects of the medical world. It is not uncommon that someone is taking medication successfully for years, and then it stops working, requiring a change in the medication regimen. But short term positive results in Bipolar disorder are far more likely than in treatment for BPD (which does not respond to medication at all).
There is quite a bit I do know, and I have no problem sharing it in the CR or elsewhere. I accept arguments and disagreement.January 7, 2018 9:52 pm at 9:52 pm #1444273🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
untreatable does not mean it can’t be cured, it means there is no treatment. Bipolar Disorder has various treatments that can leave a person stable for years on end. If that is the case for someone, it does not matter that they are on meds, it matters that their behavior is predictable and that their condition is stabilized and they can be trusted to be a reliable spouse or parent. If you have found a successful treatment for BPD that does not involve meds then I wish you tremendous hatzlocha but please remember that it isn’t whether or not you are on meds that is important, it is your ability to function predictably and productively in society as a Torah Jew.January 7, 2018 9:54 pm at 9:54 pm #1444282LightbriteParticipant
RebYidd23: You said, “Nothing should be kept secret in shidduchim” (RebYidd23).
Can one omit information, without it being a “secret,” such as someone who is treated with laser hair removal?January 7, 2018 10:46 pm at 10:46 pm #1444329
The little i know:
I am only telling that which my psychiatrist and therapist have told me. As far as medication, many of those with bpd have other mental illnesses as well. Eg. Anxiety,depression. We take mood stabilizers just like those with bipolar because we do have mood swings as well. The medication takes off the edge so we can use the rest of our reserves to implement the therapy in our lives.
There has to be real motivation to change yourself. But its possible. Ive come very far in the past 5 years.
As far as living with me, it can be extremely difficult. I am not disagreeing on that one. But speak to my husabnd on that one😃January 7, 2018 10:48 pm at 10:48 pm #1444335
Correction: bipolar is treatable but incurable.
As far as DBT (dialectical behavioral therapy), it was created for those with BPD but they are using it now for all different types of mood disorders. CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) will not be successful for those with bpd.January 8, 2018 3:18 am at 3:18 am #1444365BelievingParticipant
I did not read through all these comments, but i’m gathering some misconceptions and confusion regarding Bipolar Disorder and Borderline Personality Disorder being treated. Mental illness is (usually) NOT something that’s cured and goes away. Even with therapy, one has to constantly fight the battle. However, they are BOTH – Bipolar and Borderline manageable with therapy and medication. Mental illness is not a life sentence. And, yes, ones with those disorders (and others) CAN and do get married. They can lead very “normal” and fulfilling lives. DBT (Dialectical Behavioral Therapy) is most common for Borderline Personality Disorder. Alternatively, CBT (Cognitive Behavirol Therapy) is used to treat a wide range of conditions such as Anxiety, OCD and more. The bottom line is that with Hashem’s help and proper Hishtadlus – therapy and meds (if needed), such diagnosis are very much treatable. That’s not to say it’s easy. It’s brutally had, but it can be done. Hope this clarifies.January 8, 2018 10:45 am at 10:45 am #1444475
BPD has never been demonstrated to be curable, and I find it shocking that your psychiatrist seems to believe it is. That is inconsistent with the reams of research on the subject. I repeat my earlier statement, that there has been very little that has managed to manage the condition. DBT has shown dramatic success in helping the sufferer to control the symptoms. While the spouse or other family living with the BPD sufferer has quite a struggle, this does not suggest that the sufferer him/herself does not have a difficult life.
You were correct in pointing out that personality disorders can co-exist with any other mental disorder. And medication for the other mental disorder can be indicated. Sadly, it will have zero impact on the BPD.
You are commended for the progress you have made, and may HKB”H continue to help you.January 8, 2018 10:45 am at 10:45 am #1444477David111Participant
Borderline Personality Borderline can not be treated with Medications. (certain medications may help with symptoms).
Borderline personality disorder is not curable, but it is treatable and recovery is possible. … To understand the terminology it may be helpful to compare BPD with some cancers. Treatment is available, and many people recover, but it’s unlikely that a person will ever hear the word “cured.January 8, 2018 11:37 am at 11:37 am #1444579BelievingParticipant
“Borderline Personality Borderline can not be treated with Medications. (certain medications may help with symptoms).”
With all due respect, I beg to differ. Borderline Personality Disorder IS treatable and manageable – with medication. How do I know? I’m bH getting the help I need for it. It’s not curable, but manageable.January 8, 2018 12:02 pm at 12:02 pm #1444623East12thParticipant
Wow. I am amazed at this discussion about mental health and the complete acceptance by so many commenters of the conventional/mainstream approach to various “mental disorders”. It should be noted that there is an alternate school of thought on this issue that looks to treat various mental disorders such as Bipolar and Schizophrenia with healthy lifestyle changes including, healthy sleep,good nutrition, exercise, and nutritional supplementation such as Vitamin D3 and, High Dose Vitamin C. Dr Kelly Brogan MD has written a book and treats people with the goal of getting them off meds. She makes the case that the meds usually prolong the illness which although bad for the patient, is good for the pharmaceutical companies and the medical industry that makes money off of sick people. Unfortunately from the posts I see here it looks like everybody including Rabbonim have bought into the pharmaceutical advertising which incessantly,and insidiously, tries to convince us to ask our doctors about this drug or that drug. This medicalization of behavior is very disturbing. We should be asking why does there seem to be such a dramatic increase in mental illness? Is it really just less stigmatized and we are all just more “aware”. Based on the anecdotal stories I hear, somewhere between 1/3 and 2/3ds of our frum community is taking some kind of psychotropic at any given time. This would be inline with the numbers for the rest of the population in our country. If we were to stop doing shidduchim because of this than we have a bigger problem on our hands than non disclosure. It seems clear there is an environmental cause to this problem and blaming it on genes/heredity, is a cheap and dishonest way out of actually addressing the problem. Unless you are talking about a pure genetic defect like Tay Sachs or the like, most genetic predispositions still require environmental triggers such as the Brca cancer gene. Although having that gene dramatically raises the statistical risk of developing cancer, still it only raises it by at most 80%. there are clearly environmental and lifestyle factors that are a major part of the problem.January 8, 2018 2:26 pm at 2:26 pm #1444681
I am open to hearing other approaches to anything, including mental health. There is a serious problem with the discussion with regards to interventions based on lifestyle modification and the array of supplements. Simple problem. There is very close to no research that indicates any efficacy for this. There is good reason to believe that poor nutrition contributes to medical issues, and included here are psychiatric ones. When we engage in the conversation that excludes genetics, biochemical disorders, and the complete ban on medication, we have crossed into territory that is unsafe and poorly supported. There is much anecdotal report about this or that helping for various conditions. Some of these have even intruded into mainstream psychiatry. However, research has not come up favorable.
Some examples. Remember St. John’s Wart? It was heralded as the newest breakthrough to treat depression. So much so that it was found in the major mainstream psychiatric journals, and submitted for research. It was found to have negligible effects, not enough to have clinical use. There is also a major handicap to the industry that produces these vitamins and supplements. There is very little funding to conduct proper research. So either shoddy, unprofessional research gets done, which can easily be refuted by normal science. Or one resorts to anecdotal data, which may be interesting but not informative to the scientist. There have been numerous crazes and fads in this industry that have failed to yield enough data to support the suggestions of miracle cures. Unfortunately, it is only the pharmaceutical industry that is regulated, and can recoup the funds expended in conducting scientific study. The food market, including the supplements lacks that. Money talks.
The production of the many supplements on the market is also a troublesome subject. There is no regulation that assures quality of a product. Every so often, outside studies are done to verify the veracity of the products. A label that attests to containing “50 mg.” of a certain vitamin or supplement may have little to do with what the package really contains. I have spoken to people who work for companies that manufacture these products who have told me that the absence of regulation even bothers them, as they claim no one really knows what the pills contain.
With too little verifiable proof that a substance has any effect, and little reliability that a product is real, there is a severe problem here. To the degree that these packages contain the claimed ingredients, who knows what the side effects are? How about the incompatibility between them or with medications?
I cannot engage in debate, and probable should not do so in the CR. But the role that nutrition and lifestyle play is probably relevant, as it would pertain to anything in the medical field. But the leap to the liberal attitude toward treatment with regimens of supplements is beyond logic. Yes, deficiencies in nutrients can be problematic, and should be treated with supplementation. But as pseudomedical interventions – I see it as a craze and sometimes a costly one.January 9, 2018 6:26 am at 6:26 am #1446116
East12th- I don’t know anything about treatment of psychologica l diseases with conventional medication vs non-conventional, but since you have cancer as an example, I want to refute that.
You said :”there are clearly environmental and lifestyle factors that are a major part of the problem.”
Of course. Yet one cancer develops, it needs to be treated- with the best that medicine has to offer today, which can often be successful, although unfortunately not always. At this point making changes in lifestyle and nutrition will not cure the cancer, although it may strengthen the person and make the chemo more tolerable. Stopping smoking will not cure lung cancer, avoiding sun exposure will not cure skin cancer, even though undeniably, smoking and sun exposure are strong factors in disease development.
By the way, aren’t the vitamin and supplement makers also in it for the money? Don’t they also use strong marketing techniques to convince people to buy their product? Aren’t they also making money off of sick people?January 9, 2018 6:26 am at 6:26 am #1446111
@LightBright, if the boy’s mother don’t ask that question yet, we don’t need to say 🙂January 9, 2018 6:29 am at 6:29 am #1446117y123Participant
As a Daughter of a father with mental illness.
I do want to say I always felt bad for my mother that she doesn’t have a normal marriage.my aunts did once disclose to me between the lines….that my father’s parent’s asked a certain rebbe and he said it was okay to disclose the illness…I sometimes wonder where is this reebbe now when my mother is struggling. And we kids didn’t have it ez too at times. But bh we grew up healthy kids…I always think must be someone’s teffillios. Were all at the point of getting married and were bh having nice families of our own. “The one to pity is my mom” (I sometimes look at her like a living almana)
(needless to say my father couldn’t keep a job down…and my mother needed to take over and is running a very busy shop…. with my father’s family being pretty well to do….I don’t remember last when they offered any help) at least that if your marring off such a good…make things easier.January 9, 2018 1:45 pm at 1:45 pm #1446484bhyyParticipant
These are all very well articulated clinical arguments. However, something should be said to address the speed at which couples date and marry in certain circles. If a relationship comes to marriage after just 8 dates, with a wedding but weeks later, do the couple have enough time to really get to know one another, setting aside discovery of underlying or even more prevalent mental or physical health issues? Are we as parents rushing and/or pushing too hard to marry off kids for the wrong reasons. I know it is contrary to popular belief, but meet, date, get to know each other, fall in love, get married and have kids, etc… Less “buyers” remorse that way…January 9, 2018 1:46 pm at 1:46 pm #1446408East12thParticipant
You are repeating the propaganda of the Pharmaceutical Medical establishment. There is a huge amount of published peer reviewed evidence of the benefits of treating not only mental illness with supplements and life style changes but many other disease conditions as well. As far as quality of product, one can purchase from reputable companies and even from companies that have third party labs doing quality control testing similar to a kashrus organization that gives hashgacha. Aerobic exercise alone, has been shown to be equal or better than Prozac in treating mild to moderate depression. Imagine if you combine aerobic exercise with vitamin D3 supplementation and omega fatty acid uptake via eating foods like salmon and sardines. We know that a lot of Americans are vitamin D deficient and we know that there is probably more vitamin D deficiency in the frum community due to the way we dress and the fact that we do not spend time on the beaches in the summer. Researchers are now experimenting with things like steroids to treat depression now that we know there is in inflammatory element to this illness. However Vitamin C in high doses and in highly bioavailable forms is an anti inflammatory agent that you can take without the side effects of steroids. Unfortunately you will not hear advertisements for these types of treatment in the media or be recommended them by the average physician. As far as Cancer, it is best to try and prevent it before it hits than to try and “beat” it with Chemo after the fact. Diet and lifestyle is the number one cause of cancer and the number one way in which it can be prevented. Also please note the recent news story of a woman who after years of failed chemo to treat multiple myeloma, cured herself with curcumin supplementation.January 9, 2018 2:38 pm at 2:38 pm #1446588
You are repeating the propaganda of the supplement industry, which, unlike the pharmaceutical industry, is basically not regulated.January 10, 2018 8:59 am at 8:59 am #1446855
Regarding the curcumin case- I took a look at the case study (Zaidi et al, BMJ Case Reports 2017;). Indeed, her disease seems to be controlled by the curcumin, when standard chemotherapy did not work. Yet, if you read the discussion of the case study- they say that this is the only known case of myeloma being cured by curcumin. In the one phase I/II clinical trial conducted with multiple myeloma patients, no positive results were seen. The authors of the paper say more research is needed. Indeed, there are many clinical trials testing curcumin’s effectiveness as an anti-cancer agent, due to very promising results in preclinical research- ie cell culture and mouse cancer models. It remains to be seen whether it will prove effective in large scale clinical trials, The fact that it helped one mm patient means nothing if it doesn’t help another 99. That’s why clinical research is important. Also, curcumin has poor bioavailability (meaning it doesn’t get to where it needs to get very well), so researchers are developing and studying its derivatives are being studied. It can also have negative interactions with other drugs, so it’s not necessarily safe to take the supplement.
However, if the current studies do show good results, and a curcuminn derivative gets FDA approval and is marketed as an anti-cancer drug, the anti-conventional medicine people will shun it as a product of the “propaganda filled pharmaceutical industry-medical professional-FDA establishment.”January 10, 2018 11:51 am at 11:51 am #1447029
Why should current sufferers wait years until they’re dead until the industry can “do additional studies”?January 10, 2018 3:13 pm at 3:13 pm #1447179
Because that is the way to know if it will work or not. Otherwise, current sufferers will be running after “cures” that probably won’t help them. Most drugs do not pass the clinical trials, which implies that most of what is out there touted as the miracle cure is really not, and people would be wasting their time, money and ultimately life, on false leads. And since nothing would be organized, no one would have any clue what really does work and other people won’t be helped by the real cures. The studies don’t only study whether it works, but also set the best dosages, drug combinations, and of course, safety.
Of course, these people can join the “additional studies” and benefit from the experimental treatment before it is approved (as long as they are not assigned to the control group, an unfortunate but very necessary part of the study).January 10, 2018 3:43 pm at 3:43 pm #1447203
Why do we need control groups? We know what cancer does already.January 10, 2018 4:00 pm at 4:00 pm #1447206
There is an obscure Ramban that discusses the subject of medical care by a professional. He essentially states that there is a science that utilizes empirical study that must be the training of anyone practicing in the field. No, he doesn’t endorse a particular medical school. But he states clearly that those who lack this scientific training should not engage in the practice. The context of this is a discussion about the mishna that exempts a physician from liability if a patient was injured or harmed in the process of healing. The message is that “The surgery was successful, but the patient died” is adequate to free the doctor of liability. But this is limited to the physician who is trained and expert. The charlatan or untrained doctor (lacking the empirical background) is liable for any harm.
I have personally witnessed adverse reactions to vitamins and supplements recommended by “experts” in that field. B”H none were life threatening. I have also observed some of the advocates of this approach bombard family members of someone with the dreaded illness, looking to stop chemotherapy and traditional medical care for IV drips of various vitamins. The fight was between these advocates and oncologists with years of experience. It was sad to watch patients die because their families withheld responsible treatment.
There is a place for nutrition management, supplementation, etc. The federal government requires labeling that specifies that these products cannot be used to diagnose or treat any medical ailment (check the labels for exact wording). The advocates would override that. Results are typically tragic.January 10, 2018 5:19 pm at 5:19 pm #1447275
RebYidd, obviously the controls are not to find out what untreated cancer does, but to find out what the proposed drug does. The control is essential to determine if any response can be explained to statistical variability, placebo effect, or a real biological effect. Without it, you have no idea if the drug worked.
That said, it would be unethical to deny the standard treatment to someone participating in a trial as a control. For that reason, it is standard in many trials testing a new drug that the control is the standard treatment, and the experiment is to see how the new drug compares to the standard alone or in combination with the standard treatment- can it cure/improve/change the outcome better than the accepted protocol?January 11, 2018 8:42 am at 8:42 am #1447439TheoParticipant
I have just seem this interesting thread. There are many different problems that can be and are often described as mental health issues or more unkindly mental illnesses. Even if someone suffers from mental health issues and challenges why does he or she have to be so negatively described as suffering from mental illness. Is anorexia a mental illness? Many suffered from this cruel debilitating condition come out of several months inpatient psychiatric treatment with a clear understanding of where they have erred in the past. Are girls [and even sometimes boys] who have experienced the pain of anorexia to also be condemned to a life of pain without a spouse?March 2, 2018 11:09 am at 11:09 am #1479831yitzymotchaParticipant
Can anyone tell me how I could find a great girl who is on meds like myself? All I get are girls who have “no problems”. I want someone who struggled a little like me so we’d understand each other as strange as it sounds. There are shadchanim for this but they have no one.
When I am married I will be a shadchan for people on meds. I would do it now but I am not sure how.March 2, 2018 3:25 pm at 3:25 pm #1479979
Yitzy, do those who take placebos qualify?
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