February 28, 2012 6:08 am at 6:08 am #858917shmoolik 1Participant
actually I prefer to make Kiddush Erev Shabat on red wine Kiddush Rabba on bourbon and havdala on brandy
if I was Dutch I woud use milkFebruary 28, 2012 6:57 am at 6:57 am #858918EY MomParticipant
Re: The story about the Satmar Rav, I have also heard the story just that it involved Reb Moshe, not Rav Aharon Kotler. It has nothing to do, however, with the Satmar Rebbe’s minhag per se. In Satmar, as in other branches of Chassidus such as Tzanz and Amshinov – the minhag is to hold Rabbeinu Tam k’din, meaning – that they hold both shkia and tzeis according to Rabbeinu Tam.
The way I heard the above-mentioned story is that the reason Reb Moshe asked the Satmar Rebbe to stop driving after the earlier shkia is because Shemiras Shabbos in America was a major problem and he was choshesh that people seeing a gadol driving after shkia would complicate things further.
While today one doesn’t see many Chassidim doing melachah after the earlier shkia, those who hold Rabbeinu Tam k’din will wash for Shalosh Seudos, daven Minchah, etc. after the earlier shkia yet before Rabbeinu Tam’s shkia. The converse is also true – they will not do melachah or break a fast before Rabbeinu Tam’s tzeis.
Anyone who wishes to pick a bone with Rabbeinu Tam is welcome. But don’t tell Chassidim that they are being oveir aveiros because you hold differently.February 29, 2012 3:43 am at 3:43 am #858919147Participant
grape juice which is a MASSIVE BEDI’EVED:- This is so only 4 times a year:-
1) Seder nite on 1st cup
2) Seder nite on 2nd cup
3) Seder nite on 3rd cup
4) Seder nite on 4th cup.
Any other Kiddush or Havdolo, grapejuice is leChatchilo.
For drunkeness on Purim, or daily Revi’is on Chol haMoed or Yom Tov, require wine, but even then, grape juice is leChatchilo for Kiddush.February 29, 2012 4:03 am at 4:03 am #858920Yankie DoodleMember
You can’t use grape juice for the Seder kosos?March 7, 2012 6:23 am at 6:23 am #858921YakovLMember
“We also say zikaron l’maaseh v’reishis at night”: I Don’t understand your question. “Zikaron” – just tells us why we have Shabbos and it is because HKB”H rested on Shabbos.It doesn”t talk about the creation. Vehamevin yuvin.
“besides the fact that kiddush in the day is …… and the “nusach” you speak of is not me’ikar hadin”. Even though it isn”t meikar hadin, it is said as a minhag for a reason.
“A cute pshetl is not a reason to do something which is questionable l’halacha.” It isn’t questionable lehalocho, and there are many that were noheg so – and it is not DAASYOCHID.March 11, 2012 6:08 am at 6:08 am #858922☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
It doesn”t talk about the creation
It says maaseh v’reishis.
It isn’t questionable lehalocho
It absolutely is questionable; not definitely wrong, not definitely okay – questionable.
and there are many that were noheg so
They obviously held it was fine. But for someone who doesn’t have this mesorah (or questions the halachic status of chamar medinah in modern society) your cute pshetl should not be a deciding factor.March 11, 2012 3:02 pm at 3:02 pm #858923gabieMember
Bronfen? Isn’t the Yiddish word shnaps?March 11, 2012 10:57 pm at 10:57 pm #858924YakovLMember
“It says maaseh v’reishis”. Best, in order for you to understand better the meaning, see Tur siman 271 says the following
?????? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ???? ?? ???”? ???
????? ???? ??????. In other words, to remember the Shabbos which was after creation (it not refering to how the world was created).
“It isn’t questionable lehalocho It absolutely is questionable; not definitely wrong, not definitely okay – questionable”.
It is not questionable to those who were noheg so.They were comfortable with the pshetel and didn’t have enough doubt to change for regular wine and beshiur revi’is.
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