August 7, 2008 6:18 am at 6:18 am #587975
Perhaps living in Eretz Yisroel I am being naieve, but I was rather shocked to find the topic of parents on cellphones being raised by a 13 year-old girl.
Why has this girl got access to the Internet? Don’t her parents know that the harm can outdo the good? Would the same parents put a TV screen right in the middle of their homes?
And even if the common feeling in the States to be “matir”, then surely a “YWN Coffee Room” should be off-limits. There are many adult issues discussed here, that are not suitable for kids.August 7, 2008 3:39 pm at 3:39 pm #620307illini07Member
There may be mature issues discussed here, but I don’t think I have seen any that have been inappropriate for a 13 year old. Kids are more perceptive than people think, and can pick up on issues that adults often think they are oblivious to. The best way to deal with that is to educate and inform them, and speak to them on a mature level (not that this always happens around here).August 7, 2008 3:46 pm at 3:46 pm #620308namelessMember
Couldnt agree more! The most shocking part of the whole thing is, that instead of telling her to bring this issue to a professional, some adult posters are discussing this with her as if she is a grown up.
This would be the best example of how internet can harm children.
Why doesnt YWN make a special blog just for youngsters?August 7, 2008 6:21 pm at 6:21 pm #620309JosephParticipant
The original question was, why did a 13 year old have (unsupervised?) internet access AT ALL.August 7, 2008 7:18 pm at 7:18 pm #620310aidle maidleParticipant
I think some of things discussed under the thread “Are frum couples perhaps divorcing too quickly??” is inappropriate for a 13 year old. What do you think?August 7, 2008 7:30 pm at 7:30 pm #620311Native IsraeliMember
u were saying that u dont think u have seen a topic inappropiate for a 13yr old
check this one out:
“Are frum couples perhaps divorcing a bit too quickly??”
i think the topics should be ratedAugust 7, 2008 7:37 pm at 7:37 pm #620312fardaigetMember
I think it is as most other things in life,
it depends how when where and under what conditions you use it.
We are responsible for our children and must heed to that responsibility. there are parents that undrstand this, but nevertheless trust their children. Those are the times that the yetzer horah comes and talks to the kids little by little, telling them things like, “its ok just look, for a second over there” etc etc.
I dont really understand why parents dont have the “J-NET” or other types of controlled internet usage. i know sometimes you can over ride these controls, but in the general it works. As many other things in life you should do the best you can and a heartfelt “kapital tihilim” can accomplish so much.
May hashem bestow upon all of our teenagers and children that we should be spared from the yetzer horah and stand strong in yiddishkiet.
chazak uboruchAugust 7, 2008 7:41 pm at 7:41 pm #620313noitallmrParticipant
“special blog just for youngsters”
Youngsters should keep far away from the net…period!
I believe that if a person gives the net to his kid in any way, he is slipping them poison and has a din of a Shofech Domim.August 7, 2008 7:46 pm at 7:46 pm #620314noitallmrParticipant
Listen not all girls anyway grow up in a very torahdik home. I know this is yeshiva World but you’re bound to get kids from more modern backgrounds on here.August 7, 2008 8:08 pm at 8:08 pm #620315dimyonMember
I understand that such topics are not the typical 13 year old’s choice of conversation, but I don’t see a reason to go into hysterics about our sheltered children being “exposed” to such things, especially a budding teenager. I don’t see the harm in their partaking in adult conversation. After all, they’re almost there!Kids are not underpriveleged citizens. They have valid perspectives that deserve the right to be expressed, not repressed only to force them to find their podium in a more liberal arena. I vouch for freedom of speech for kids, while acknowledging the freedom of press of the moderator of this forum to enact a discriminatory age requirement.August 7, 2008 10:55 pm at 10:55 pm #620317bobthebuilderParticipant
Maybe she’s on here unsupervised because her parents are not around (or on the phone), and she thus seeks attention/guidance else ware.August 8, 2008 4:33 am at 4:33 am #620319namelessMember
dont you think it would be more logical to restrict these youngsters from certain blogs instead of catering to them instead of adults?August 8, 2008 6:49 am at 6:49 am #620320illini07Member
Aidle & Native:
I haven’t had the chance to peruse the conversation yet, but on its face, I do not see why a legitimate discussion concerning the divorce rate is inappropriate for a 13 year-old. A 13 year-old certainly has a grasp on the concept of divorce, and might even have inklings of its social implications. They may not be at a marriageable age yet, but I see no inherent reason why divorce should be off-limits for a 13yo. The truth is that it’s out there, and they are exposed whether we like it or not; we might as well have them be informed.August 8, 2008 2:50 pm at 2:50 pm #620321
It seems that most of the Posters here don’t have a problem with the web per-se; just the content.
Even those with filters on their computers against “dangerous content”, would have read, as an example, all the loshon hora a couple of months ago, regarding the Natan Levi case – (in loshon hora, I am referring to the family). I happen to have heard of a Lakewood kid who was the one who gave his parents all the “scoop” on what people were saying. Where did he get it from – YWN!
However, my main point here is – don’t parents in the States realise how detrimental it is to allow their kids access to the Web – for any purpose whatsoever? Don’t they know that filters don’t block out everything that is wrong with the world.August 8, 2008 3:54 pm at 3:54 pm #620322yoshiMember
Not to burst anyones bubble, but parents in Israel let their children surf the web alone as well. This isn’t just a USA thing. It goes on everywhere. The worst part is not that they let their kids on the web without supervision, it’s that some parents allow their children to have computers in their bedrooms with free access to the internet whenever they want. This isn’t only a religious issue, this is a matter of the safety for our children’s well being, and the harm it can cause in many ways I shouldn’t have to elaborate on. The thing you should know is most websites have age restrictions, but that age is from 12 and under. So 13 year olds have a lot of freedom on the web even when they are following the “rules.” To the parents who think everything is nice and dandy for their kids to be online alone because they have limited access or password protected internets, are extremely naive. Kids are a lot craftier then you think, they can break those passwords, and safety walls easier and faster then you think. I’m not one that is against the internet I love the news, email, being in contact with friends and family who live far away, YW :), and the endless amount of educational information ( I also need it for my job), but if there are adults who can’t control themselves or young children with free reign without supervision, then there should not be a computer in their reach unsupervised at any time.August 8, 2008 7:01 pm at 7:01 pm #620323TOHIGHSCHOOLGUYMember
while i am not denying in any way the severe dangers of the internet, i am unable to understand why allowing teenagers to access information is such a bad thing. I think that this attitude of totally sheltering kids is backfiring on us, and that the best way to deal with it is by educating teenagers in the proper uses of the internet (as it can be used as a tremendous source of information and benefit)
that being said, however, there must also be some level of control. Why not just treat the internet like yichud? no access unless someone else (who is responsible) is aroundAugust 11, 2008 4:15 am at 4:15 am #620324Think BIGMember
“I haven’t had the chance to peruse the conversation yet, but on its face, I do not see why a legitimate discussion concerning the divorce rate is inappropriate for a 13 year-old.”
It is because you have not had a chance to peruse the conversation that you see no problem with it. That particular converation was not just about divorce and its effects, but it veered into details completely inappropriate for kids, and in my opinion even for adults. Just because we are adults, it doesn’t justify our discussing lewd topics no matter how it is “packaged”. I am glad that YW finally closed that discussion down. Besides for the fact that that topic (not divorce, but the emphasis on the reasons for the divorce) is not really prevalent in our society to the extent that it needed to be discussed here. (Unfortunately, it happens once in a great while–we are not immune, but to discuss it here among all these other topics is to suggest that it is a common situation, which it most definitely is not in the frum, yeshiva/chassidsh world.)
While I’m on that note, I find that adults often allow themselves to watch or read material that they would agree is not appropriate for kids, but is okay for them. What I want to say is, (and I feel very strongly about this) that we adults are not immune to timtum halev, and if it is material of the kind that is “unkosher” (and I’m not referring to adult-related material which deals with mature topics in a wholesome way) we should not be exposing ourselves to them either. I know people who will censor the books and movies they allow their child to be exposed to but have no problem reading or watching very inapropriate material. This is self-dillusion and hypocracy of the highest order, and in my opinion, it bears thinking about.
Of course, this topic was about kids having internet access, and I want to mention one more point that was not raised. Besides for the devastating effects it can have on kids who see inapropriate images and read inapropriate things, internet surfing is quite addictive (as most of us here can attest ). Children who need to focus on their learning are inhibited, their social life is curtailed and of course, they are less active, adding to the risk of childhood obesity.August 11, 2008 4:33 pm at 4:33 pm #620325
Think BIG – I agree with you 100%. I use email/internet (filtered) for parnasah. However, I am the first to admit that I end up “wasting” time reading news, etc., when I could be better employed (excuse the pun) elsewhere.
It’s for this reason that I keep ALL my family right away from the computer, and especially the internet. However, Yoshi claims that kids in Israel are also surfing – I don’t know of any round here. I guess it depends on where you live; my boys don’t learn English or computer studies so b”H, it kind of “disables” them somewhat – and I prefer to keep it that way.August 19, 2008 3:45 pm at 3:45 pm #620326The Big OneParticipant
Its hard for me to imagine even a sane non-Jewish parent allowing his child unsupervsed (and I mean breathing down his back) access, considering the trash out there. L’Havdil a Yid!August 19, 2008 10:06 pm at 10:06 pm #620327yaakovtsMember
quote from yoshi,
“The thing you should know is most websites have age restrictions, but that age is from 12 and under”
From the rest of your comment I wouldn’t think that you would say that (I’m not trying to offend you or anything). When you say age restrictions, that could mean two things. One that there’s a button there that says, “I agree that I am 13 or older”, which is a joke because as we all know anyone can hit that.
The other one is that they require you to put in a birth date, and I hate to break it to you, but it’s not so hard to put in a fake one. There are no good restrictions on the internet except for maybe credit card numbers, but from what I’ve heard, not many sites require that. Besides for that they can do whatever they want.
There’s absolutely no reason for letting kids use the internet, and I personally know people who have been affected by the internet (like inappropriate sites and using “im-ing” to talk to people they shouldn’t talk to) and are not doing so well Yiddeshkeit wise right now. If they have to do a report, fine. Let there parents do it or have someone stand over them while doing the research, but to daily allow them to use it is one of the best ways to guarantee that the child won’t grow up to be the way you want him or her to. That’s just my two cents.
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