August 3, 2012 1:23 am at 1:23 am #604407
Kimchis was zocheh to have seven sons who were kohanim gedolim since the four walls of her house never saw the hair of her head.
Does that mean that each of her son’s died after a relatively short service a kohan gadol? Is that good???August 3, 2012 2:53 am at 2:53 am #889649Sam2Participant
The better question is that she was during Bayis Sheni where the Kehuna was bought and many undeserving Kohanim became Kohen Gadol. So what is the Ma’ale here?August 3, 2012 3:18 am at 3:18 am #889650choppyParticipant
The fact that the Gemora brings it (that the walls never saw her hair) as a major maale, proves it is a maale.
Questions as to why it (that the walls never saw her hair) is a maale are fine, so long you recognize that it is in fact a major maale.August 3, 2012 3:21 am at 3:21 am #889651KozovMember
If they were willing to bribe to get ito a suicidal position they must have had some righteousness.August 3, 2012 3:51 am at 3:51 am #889652TheGoqParticipant
I thought kimchi was cabbage.August 3, 2012 3:54 am at 3:54 am #889653Sam2Participant
Kozov: We see it all the time. People are willing to take suicidal positions for their own glory. That’s stupidity, not righteousness.August 3, 2012 4:04 am at 4:04 am #889654OneOfManyParticipant
lolAugust 3, 2012 4:04 am at 4:04 am #889655Ðash®Participant
Does that mean that each of her son’s died after a relatively short service a kohan gadol?
The Gemorah that relates this story clearly states the details of how Yeshaivov and Yosef became the Kohanim Gedolim and neither of them involved any deaths.
The better question is that she was during Bayis Sheni where the Kehuna was bought and many undeserving Kohanim became Kohen Gadol. So what is the Ma’ale here?
The Maharsha says that Yishmael Ben Pavi who served for 10 years was the son of Kimchis. (Although he says if for a more compelling reason.)August 3, 2012 4:26 am at 4:26 am #889656MDGParticipant
Found this on the Web:
Kimchis’ sons did not necessarily die in the role of cohen gadol. The gemara in Yoma describes how on two occasions her son the cohen gadol Yishmael ben kimchis was in the “shuk” on Yom Kippur “between avodas” to meet an “Arab king” and the king’s saliva hit him, rendering Y ben K tamei and unfit to finish the avoda of the day. On each occasion a different brother stepped in for him to finish up as cohen gadol. Possibly something similar happened with the other four.
Per the magid shiur where we are learning Yoma (I won’t name him as I did not ask his permission), Kimchis is described in the Yerushalmi as being like soles (fine flour) compared to other women, i.e., particularly tzanua, thus the name Kimchis (from kemach, or flour). Our rav pointed out that the sota brings kemach (flour) of barley, the only”kemach” brought as an offering, and it is an inferior sort of flour, reflecting the sota’s status. All other flour offerings are based on the finer wheat-based soles. Kimchis, being compared to soles is a kind of antidote for the sota.August 3, 2012 4:41 am at 4:41 am #889657pcozMember
I think in one of the cases the gemara says that one of the kohanim gedolim spoke to someone who was a zav / zavah on yom kippur and became tamei so his brother had to be meshamesh on the same yom kippur.August 3, 2012 5:59 am at 5:59 am #889658KozovMember
Sam, there’s obviously a big difference between that and getting into a position he knows he is going to die from within a year.August 3, 2012 11:46 am at 11:46 am #889659WhiteberryMember
Like training to be a suicide bomber?August 3, 2012 3:32 pm at 3:32 pm #889660HealthParticipant
Kozov -“Sam, there’s obviously a big difference between that and getting into a position he knows he is going to die from within a year.”
If the Gemora isn’t Melamed Zecus -why are you? Who says they thought they were going to die also? Maybe their Gaava told them they deserve the position? I know and learnt about a lot of Jews who are in positions of power and don’t/didn’t deserve it. This occurs in every generation.August 3, 2012 5:11 pm at 5:11 pm #889661TheGoqParticipant
big LOL to the mod who changed the op’s nameAugust 3, 2012 5:29 pm at 5:29 pm #889662Doodle-Man™Member
I hope this means the Rebbitzin is now blocked.August 3, 2012 5:57 pm at 5:57 pm #889663WolfishMusingsParticipant
Kimchis’s seven sons all died…
Well, of course they did. They were born over 2000 years ago.
The WolfAugust 3, 2012 6:01 pm at 6:01 pm #889664
The mod gave me a new name! Isn’t that done a bris? I don’t get it, since 2008 I have used my name Goldenpupik, but now in 2012 I must pick a nicer name. Is that the chumra of the week?
For those who don’t know pupik is the yiddish name for gizzard which is the chicken stomach. Is Goldengizzard okay? Maybe someone simply doesn’t like yiddish, so Goldenpupik is not okay?!
My delicious and famous golden chicken soup is made with pupiks, hence my user name!August 3, 2012 6:05 pm at 6:05 pm #889665
Yikes, I see the mod added “troll” under my name! Have I been a troll since 2008? I don’t live under a bridge and I am not associated with Norse mythology and Scandinavian folklore! I am a thinking yeshivish housewife who learns and studies.August 3, 2012 9:09 pm at 9:09 pm #8896662scentsParticipant
..learns, studies and trolls!August 6, 2012 1:49 am at 1:49 am #889667pcozMember
reb boruch ber only served as a rov for a very short time, most of the time he was a rosh yeshiva. once when he was a rov a housewife walked in with a kashrus shaalah on a chicken and showed him the pupik, reb boruch ber said – this is the helike pupik which the gemara talks about! so maybe you could be the helike pupik
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