Kiruv Vs. Kollel
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- This topic has 19 replies, 12 voices, and was last updated 10 years, 3 months ago by interjection.
December 3, 2012 2:58 am at 2:58 am #607216
Which is better, kiruv or kollel??????December 3, 2012 3:46 am at 3:46 am #910637WIYMember
What is better apples or crayons?December 3, 2012 4:08 am at 4:08 am #910638Josh31Participant
If you are mekarev serveral families, you can create financial support for more Kollel seats. Based upon the Bamidbar censuses about 40 Yisraelim suported one Kollel seat for a Levi.December 3, 2012 4:14 am at 4:14 am #910639
@WIY : to be perfectly honest I dont see how that answers the questionDecember 3, 2012 5:14 am at 5:14 am #910640Yekke Mitt a GartelMember
whats better salami or baloniDecember 3, 2012 5:15 am at 5:15 am #910641Yekke Mitt a GartelMember
Yeah I know, I spelt baloni wrongDecember 3, 2012 7:44 am at 7:44 am #910642rebdonielMember
Kollel should be an option only for the best of the best, people who will give shiurim, pasken she’eilos, become educators, mashgichim, dayanim or enter other klei kodesh.
Kiruv should only be an option for those who have the personality, likability, secular learning, sophistication, charm, yirat shamayim, and torah learning that shape up. There are several gemaras about the dangers of being immersed around those who aren’t on your madreiga, and for many people, they can easily succumb to the temptations and mores of the general society, r”l.
How about being a balanced Yid, like the Tannaim, Amoraim, and Rambam? Learn a profession, make an honest living, and make time yomam v’laylah to learn. Work and go to regular shiurim and chavrusos.
I feel that I am covering a lot of ground in my own learning, and I think that if I were in a yeshiva or kollel, I’d just be drei-ing around like many others, spending weeks on a single blatt.
For the baal habayis, I suggest being mesayem Shas with Rashi and Tosafos, Rambam, Chumash with the meforshim, Nach, Mishnayos, and Shulchan Aruch with the Nosei Kelim, Mishna Berura, and Sifrei Mussar and Machshava. The bulk of my learning involves Shas and Shulchan Aruch.December 3, 2012 1:36 pm at 1:36 pm #910643ChortkovParticipant
Kollel: ????? ?? ???? ?????
Kiruv: The broom that sweeps the floor gets dirty.
Which is better option?December 3, 2012 1:37 pm at 1:37 pm #910644ChortkovParticipant
The ???? ???? tells us of the Tannah who was asked to go teach Torah to a city of ?? ??????, and he answered that he will always stay in a ???? ????…
There it was an option of his own Torah Shtieging or being Mekarev others.
??? ???? ????? ????!!!December 4, 2012 5:41 am at 5:41 am #910645Josh31Participant
yekke2: You are writing off the vast majority of Jews. But the big Chutzpah is after writing them off to ask them for money!!!December 4, 2012 6:01 am at 6:01 am #910646RABBAIMParticipant
Maybe since “in a place where Baalei Teshuva stand even Tzadikim who are complete cannot have room for their feet”, then the catalyst for kiruv is accomplishing to help create people who are greater in Hashems eyes than Tzadikim……….December 4, 2012 2:46 pm at 2:46 pm #910647midwesternerParticipant
Good old Reb Doniel will decide who belongs in kollel and who does not. What learning is valuable, and what is not. Probably worked it all out during the time he saved by skipping piyutim at the mixed seating shul that he’s trying out as the Chazan.December 4, 2012 3:01 pm at 3:01 pm #910648interjectionParticipant
“in a place where Baalei Teshuva stand even Tzadikim who are complete cannot have room for their feet”
Every complete tzaddik is a baal teshuva. If he is a genuine tzaddik he is constantly making a cheshbon hanefesh and doing teshuva.
“Which is better, kiruv or kollel?”
Whichever you think will bring you closer to Hashem and to fulfilling your tafkid is better for you.December 4, 2012 6:57 pm at 6:57 pm #910649uneeqMember
What’s better being a man or a woman?December 4, 2012 10:00 pm at 10:00 pm #910650rebdonielMember
Kollel should only be for those with true potential and talent, the future gedolei hatorah.
Most in kollel don’t make the cut. If they were all special, than the concept of gadol would become diluted.
The point is that there is a hierarchy and not everyone is cut out to be a great talmid chacham.December 4, 2012 10:16 pm at 10:16 pm #910651funnyboneParticipant
1. Why do you think that the two are mutually exclusive??
2. People should discuss these questions with a mentor. It isn’t a question that has a “one size fits all” answer.December 5, 2012 2:42 am at 2:42 am #910652RABBAIMParticipant
1- “Every complete tzaddik is a baal teshuva. If he is a genuine tzaddik he is constantly making a cheshbon hanefesh and doing teshuva.”
So, how do you learn Pshat in that Gemara?
2- Who determines at what age who can become great?
Also, aybe the development of great ones needs the atmosphere, and challenge provided by the 999 others! Finally, Kollel is limud Torah Lishma…… anyone should be allowed if he can and wants. It may even be more LISHMA for the one who plans to work later on than for the one who wants to learn and then get a job in Klall positions……December 5, 2012 2:59 am at 2:59 am #910653
Wow thank you @rebdoniel. That was a very well thought out answer and I shall take that to heart. The rest of you, I really do not appreciate you making fun of my question (@uneeq, @yekke2, @yekke mitt a gartel)December 5, 2012 4:05 am at 4:05 am #910654Torah613TorahParticipant
I’m on Team Kiruv L’Kollel.
Or is it KOllel L’Kiruv?December 5, 2012 3:05 pm at 3:05 pm #910655interjectionParticipant
“”Every complete tzaddik is a baal teshuva. If he is a genuine tzaddik he is constantly making a cheshbon hanefesh and doing teshuva.”
So, how do you learn Pshat in that Gemara?”
That a person needs to constantly be doing teshuva. A person cannot tell himself that he did enough mitzvos yesterday or that he has reached his potential. Everyday of his life he needs to work to be a better person, because even if he is not doing aveiros, he could still be striving higher.
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