November 27, 2011 9:00 am at 9:00 am #600844brightcolouredkettlesParticipant
where is the source for kohanim not taking out the garbage, has anyone ever heard of the concept before??? & why?November 27, 2011 5:35 pm at 5:35 pm #926248
A kohen can take out his own garbage but one may not ask a kohen to take out garbage for him. The reason is a kohen has to be treated with an extra amount of kavod.November 27, 2011 5:59 pm at 5:59 pm #926249
The source is Mishna Brura 128:175 where he talks about a degrading act and a regular act.November 27, 2011 6:01 pm at 6:01 pm #926250MichaelCMember
nowadays this does not apply as we assume Kohanim waive there honor (Rama)November 27, 2011 6:32 pm at 6:32 pm #926251
MichaelC: Waiving ones honor is possible when there is a benefit(getting money,chosouv person) but when it is a degrading act (taking out garbage for someone else) it should not be done. If the Kohen decides to do it himself it is fine.November 27, 2011 6:49 pm at 6:49 pm #926252✡onegoal™Participant
How about a Kohen asking another Kohen to take out the garbage.November 27, 2011 7:27 pm at 7:27 pm #926253stamamenMember
Can a wife ask her Kohen husband to take out the garbage, according to the halacha that you can’t ask a Kohen to do a degrading task? (I can hear the jokes already, but I want to know seriously if al pi halacha a wife is different than someone else asking him.)November 27, 2011 8:02 pm at 8:02 pm #926254
Good question, the Biur Halacha says efsher s’mutar.November 27, 2011 8:06 pm at 8:06 pm #926255shmoolik 1Participant
how about a bat-kohen asking her kohen hubby to take outNovember 27, 2011 8:13 pm at 8:13 pm #926256
Can a mother who is not a kohen ask her son who is a kohen to take out the garbage?November 27, 2011 8:57 pm at 8:57 pm #926258brightcolouredkettlesParticipant
most probably kibud av veaim especially for a boy-(under bar mitzvah), outwieghs this chiyuv…November 27, 2011 9:04 pm at 9:04 pm #926259always runs with scissors fastParticipant
What about recycling?November 27, 2011 9:22 pm at 9:22 pm #926260zahavasdadParticipant
How about a Father-In-Law asking his Kohen Son-In-LawNovember 27, 2011 9:36 pm at 9:36 pm #926261Raphael KaufmanMember
The first avodah of day for the kohanim in the Beis Hamiqdash was trumas hadeshen, I.E. taking out the garbage.November 27, 2011 11:10 pm at 11:10 pm #926262
The Biur Halacha says a kohen to another kohen is efsher s’mutar,just want to be clear.November 27, 2011 11:16 pm at 11:16 pm #926263
Stamamen: I would assume it is perfectly fine since a couple is one unit and the husband would also benefit since he also lives there.Pba- a son has a mitzvah of kibad av v’aim and also benefits from helping out.I didn’t see these cases inside just speculating.November 28, 2011 12:01 am at 12:01 am #926264MDGParticipant
When I take out my garbage, I call it taking care of the Terumat Hadeshen.
“nowadays this does not apply as we assume Kohanim waive there honor (Rama)”
At least I do.November 28, 2011 12:16 am at 12:16 am #926265✡onegoal™Participant
Popa- I assume you are joking even though you’ll say you’re not just because I said you are(?) but I’ll answer anyway. A mother asking you to do something is a dioraisa and a Kohen taking out the garbage is not.November 28, 2011 9:56 am at 9:56 am #926266old manParticipant
I fail to see why taking out the garbage should be considered a demeaning activity. I think it’s much more honorable to take it out rather than leave it in the house.November 28, 2011 12:11 pm at 12:11 pm #926267
What is a person who is a Kohen, an alman L”A and no children at home supposed to do? This is not meant to be funny, as we are nogea b’davar!November 28, 2011 12:48 pm at 12:48 pm #926268
I’m not sure I was joking, but I was certainly saying it to be funny.
In any event, you are all wrong. I don’t know what the answer is, but I do know that you can’t use kibbud av v’em to manufacture an assei docheh lo tassei. Even on a d’rabbanan (which this isn’t, it is d’oraisah.)November 28, 2011 7:03 pm at 7:03 pm #926269
Pba: dorasia where did you get that from? If you read the Mishna Brura he brings two tzadim and even in the second tzad he says tov l’hachmir l’chatchila.November 28, 2011 8:29 pm at 8:29 pm #926270
If you read the Mishna Brura he brings two tzadim and even in the second tzad he says tov l’hachmir l’chatchila.
You are referring to whether a ??? can be ????. I was referring to the assumption that the kid doesn’t want to take out the garbage.
dorasia where did you get that from?
I was under that impression, but I suppose I haven’t seen it inside. Am I wrong?November 28, 2011 11:44 pm at 11:44 pm #926271
Pba: There is a lot on this topic. It is not so clear we try to be more machmir l’chatchila. The Mishna Brura(128:175) is a good place to start.November 29, 2011 12:07 am at 12:07 am #926272
which chiyuv out wieghs the other in such a case, Kibud av ve’aim or this one…November 29, 2011 12:09 am at 12:09 am #926273
Yeah, I got that. You claimed it wasn’t d’oraisah. Can you give me a cite for that?November 29, 2011 1:05 am at 1:05 am #926274
siteNovember 29, 2011 1:17 am at 1:17 am #926275
please note the OP was thrown out yet the legacy of this thread still lives on…
I really hope he didn’t get a kohen to take him out to the trash…lol;) unless it was his kid…LOL:)!!!!!!
which chiyuv out wieighs the other??? anyone know yet??November 29, 2011 1:18 am at 1:18 am #926276
pops you should know by now… no pressure though;P!!November 29, 2011 1:20 am at 1:20 am #926277
Any real issur outweighs kibbud av, as far as I know.November 29, 2011 1:28 am at 1:28 am #926278
Pba: see magan avraham 201:4November 29, 2011 1:35 am at 1:35 am #926279
Thanks. That’s a good citation. It looks from that that is is a machlokes whether it is d’oraisah.November 29, 2011 1:51 am at 1:51 am #926280
pba: No problem, like I said there is a lot on the topic.February 1, 2013 6:17 am at 6:17 am #926281
Rav Moshe considered kmat no one to be a real kohen today.
see kohenlevi.orgFebruary 3, 2013 5:53 pm at 5:53 pm #926282
Daniel Rosen: I do not understand what you are saying.See The Rambam who says we go by Chazaka ,and a Kohen with a chazaka is a kohen .See the Aruch Hashulchan who says that a chazaka makes a kohen certainly. The site brings Rav Emden but the Chasam Sofer argues on that I believe. The Sdei chemed says that a kohen today is a kohen. See the Rama in Yoreh Deah who also says chazaka.
The final point is that Rav Moshe you are sourcing is in a case of of people who cant be trusted and the chazka is lost,but in no way does it mean a regular kasher kohanic family is not m,yuchus.February 3, 2013 6:24 pm at 6:24 pm #926283
I have done years of research on this topic and found a website that someone else made which is very useful. I am not going to get into a halachic debate on this site but you can go to kohenlevi.org
The MA writes that people in Europe were not makpid on treating kohanim as kohanim bec they do not have yichus. Rav Yitzchak Berkowitz says there is still a big machloches about this and it is not pashut at all. I have a friend for instance who was always a yisroel but is now a kohen after his cousin was nifter and they found a document implying he was a kohen so now he tells everyone he is a kohen, gets first alliya and so on. Rav Moshe though says you need edim mamish and what he had is only a ksav. There are BT all over the world who mistakenly do this and they have children and so on.
Rav Moshe even said you cannot use a tombstone to say one is a kohen.
Even families who claim to have yichus is not enough according to many poskim. So you can quote the Rambam who was nifter 809 years ago but there is a big machlochet about kohanim today. I have asked numerous poskim about this personally.February 3, 2013 9:12 pm at 9:12 pm #926284
I think the Aruch Hashulchan is a good source as well as tge Chasam Sofer. How would yoube mekayim pidyon haben?February 4, 2013 12:54 am at 12:54 am #926285
I found this site years ago and was told by a prominent Rabbi that it sounds like the ramblings of a disgruntled challal.
I have a family tree, mesorah, grave stone of my last frum ancestor and a positive DNA test. Not much more I can do and that’s how I’m holding until Moshiach comes. If it turns out I am not a true Kohain, so be it. Until then I will continue giving other Kohanim kavod, duchaning and going up for the first aliya when called.
And I guess since there is no actual semicha today, we have no true Rabbis either – so I’m not worried. Oh, any Yidden here (save gerim) have a shtar yichus proving their status as B’nei Yisrael? No? Perhaps you’ve all been oveir on an issur d’oraysa by keeping Shabbos. Just sayin’.February 4, 2013 12:55 am at 12:55 am #926286
Oh, and it turns out my family is Sephardic originally, though it does not make a difference.February 4, 2013 10:59 am at 10:59 am #926287on the ballParticipant
Yehudah Tzvi I take it that you are not descended from Amninodov Ben achar Ben.February 4, 2013 7:53 pm at 7:53 pm #926288
Nope. But my wife is 🙂February 5, 2013 3:22 am at 3:22 am #926291
YehudahTzvi: I’m not sure of what you mean but you do not need two kosher eidim to know if someone is a Jew or not (unlike Kohanim). So to compare the two is of no use. The site you mentioned only posts various audio recordings from poskim and sources from the hebrew books website so I’m not sure why someone would say that- do you know who? It is true that we do not have actual smicha today, everyone knows that but I do not know how that relates to this conversation.February 5, 2013 4:15 am at 4:15 am #926292Torah613TorahParticipant
If I marry a Cohen, and a son of mine tries this excuse, he will get a one-time exemption for coming up with it. b”n of course!
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