March 21, 2011 8:49 pm at 8:49 pm #595808
I really want to go to the beach soon. Are there by any chance any kosher(i.e. separate) beaches somewhere in NY?March 21, 2011 10:14 pm at 10:14 pm #751258
All of them.March 22, 2011 1:11 am at 1:11 am #751259
No, not during march, I was thinking more like June, July. I know that may not seem soon to you but to me it feels like December was yesterday etc.March 22, 2011 1:37 am at 1:37 am #751260s2021Member
In New Jersey, before the summer months there are beaches that are beautifull and tot desertedMarch 22, 2011 1:53 am at 1:53 am #751261yoyo56Member
some ppl who live in sea gate they are right off the beach if u know anyone who lives there u can go i know a school that took their students onceMarch 22, 2011 1:57 am at 1:57 am #751262
the beaches in ny …. so not worth it. tel aviv beach, omg ma rabu masecha hashem, totally gorgeous!!!March 22, 2011 1:57 am at 1:57 am #751263
Can’t the people living in the nearby houses (or possibly passerby’s) in Sea Gate see the people on the beach?March 22, 2011 2:39 am at 2:39 am #751264
Tel Aviv is a little far and $$$$ to get. More so than NY.March 22, 2011 2:42 am at 2:42 am #751265
sender..totall worth it!!! i was taken aback by its beauty and let me tell u, ive been to beaches all over, brighton (ugh), miami, boca, naples, jerseyshore, virginia, eilat, yam yamelach etc…nothing like tel aviv beach!!!March 22, 2011 2:48 am at 2:48 am #751266always hereParticipant
cshapiro~ Ashdod beach!!!March 22, 2011 2:49 am at 2:49 am #751267
There are 2 beaches available in Seagate- one is very full always. the other one is some distance behind houses- you cant usually see actual people on the beach because its not extremely close and theres a small hill that separates it.. that would be your best option if you go to seagate. but this beach is not so nice-pretty dirty and stuff like that.March 22, 2011 2:49 am at 2:49 am #751268
No men see those beaches?March 22, 2011 2:59 am at 2:59 am #751269
Of course they do.. some even go on it. But not jewish men. just some random people like walking their dogs or running.March 22, 2011 3:00 am at 3:00 am #751270
Grandmaster, what do I care if men see the beach. I need not to see women.March 22, 2011 3:01 am at 3:01 am #751271
I don’t see how women can go there in swim gear if men (even non-Jewish) may see them there.March 22, 2011 3:02 am at 3:02 am #751272
there is a third option…get that long tshirt thingy from the ‘a trip to miami’ video…:)))March 22, 2011 3:11 am at 3:11 am #751273
grandmaster: well us jewish girls and women with their kids who go there, dont wear swim gear. we wear a coverup and the women wear long skirts and t-shirts. with bathing suit underneath. theres our solution 🙂March 22, 2011 3:13 am at 3:13 am #751274
sender av: if you dont want to see women by the beaches then seagates not a good choice..March 22, 2011 3:15 am at 3:15 am #751275
Aren’t t-shirts, by definition, short sleeve (or close to it)?March 22, 2011 3:20 am at 3:20 am #751276
ok im sorry sheesh! i mean a LONG SLEEVE t-shirt.March 22, 2011 3:23 am at 3:23 am #751277brotherofursParticipant
There are dresses that are made out of bathing suit material.Many Jewish women sell them in Flatbush. Our solution is solved. They even have different designs, and are not uncomfortable. They dry fast, and come in skirts and shirts too!March 22, 2011 3:27 am at 3:27 am #751278charliehallParticipant
Try the eastern end of Fire Island — about six miles of undeveloped and usually deserted beach between Watch Hill and Smith Point Park. When I went there years ago the only people around were the park rangers and sheriff’s deputies doing occasional patrols.March 22, 2011 3:28 am at 3:28 am #751279
Doesn’t whatever is worn in the water cling, or becomes tight, to the body?March 22, 2011 3:41 am at 3:41 am #751280
When I went there years ago the only people around were the park rangers and sheriff’s deputies doing occasional patrols.
Park rangers and sheriff’s are no different than a member of the public in this regard.March 22, 2011 4:50 am at 4:50 am #751281dunnoMember
They wouldn’t have the same status as a male lifeguard (which to the best of my knowledge is allowed)?March 22, 2011 5:00 am at 5:00 am #751282
No, since they aren’t a lifeguard. (Besides, even a male lifeguard isn’t permissible.)March 22, 2011 2:53 pm at 2:53 pm #751283mewhoParticipant
wear a shvim kleid!
contact deena , she will help you outMarch 22, 2011 4:48 pm at 4:48 pm #751284veteranMember
I’ve seen kosher ham in NY, so I’m sure you can find a kosher beach too.March 22, 2011 4:51 pm at 4:51 pm #751285
Why would a male lifeguard be ok?
Are you allowed to nurse on a plane in front of a male pilot just because he is flying the plane and keeping you from dying?March 22, 2011 4:59 pm at 4:59 pm #751286
not that i agree with it…
but its the same reason that frum male videographers are allowed to video a girls high school play where the girls are wearing pants and singing (live)
or why ur allowed to go to a male dr when there are plenty of women drs availableMarch 22, 2011 5:01 pm at 5:01 pm #751287
I gotta admit- cshapiro is 100% right!
Tel aviv beach is the most gorgeous ive seen…as long as you go on the private side. The mixed beach there is completely prust.March 22, 2011 5:18 pm at 5:18 pm #751288
I don’t know about the doctor, but I really don’t know why a man would be allowed to watch women swimming just because he is a lifeguard.
If you need a man to watch, then don’t go swimming.
Are there no issurim when you are working? What if you do photography for the movie industry? Is that ok?March 22, 2011 5:25 pm at 5:25 pm #751289
But on that topic, I once met a friend of mine who said he was working for a goyish day camp.
He said he had a heter to go swimming even though the female counselors were swimming because he is involved in his job.
I asked him whether he found that it was true, that he was too busy to look at them.
He “didn’t understand” the question.
So, why would you want to swim in front of guys, knowing exactly what is going on?March 22, 2011 5:44 pm at 5:44 pm #751290anon1m0usParticipant
Don’t know what everyone is talking about. Tel-Aviv was Disgusting. There was dog waste in the water, and broken bottles in the sand. It was yuck!
Now if you go to Dahab, near the blue hole, that is an awesome beach. Only two hours after Eilat.March 22, 2011 5:51 pm at 5:51 pm #751291mikehall12382Member
go to the beach at night, that will solve the problem…March 22, 2011 6:41 pm at 6:41 pm #751292SacrilegeMember
The “Heter” for a male lifeguard isnt for a Jewish male lifeguard to watch female swimmers, its so that female Jewish swimmers can go swimming.
For example, all the girls camps rent out Mountain Creek in the summer and they have male lifeguards, are the girls able to walk around in bathing suits? Yes, on the grounds that the lifeguard is doing his job and not paying attention to the girls in their bathing suits.March 22, 2011 6:58 pm at 6:58 pm #751293
Oh, of course he is not paying attention to all the girls wearing bathing suits.
Only the pretty ones.
This is so funny. I wonder how anyone believes this.March 22, 2011 7:07 pm at 7:07 pm #751294apushatayidParticipant
Never been to Tel Aviv, but the beach in San Juan Puerto Rico, wow. That is one beautiful part of the world.March 22, 2011 7:11 pm at 7:11 pm #751295anon1m0usParticipant
Here is a post from a similar question when asked to R’ Tendler.
Thank you for a very interesting question. First of all, I was unaware that such a Psak had been rendered in a public manner, so I really can’t help you in determining which Rav may have announced this Psak. Most religious women that I know will only swim at a pool where there are female lifeguards, or will wear a robe if there are males present. I am aware, though, that at separate beaches in Israel it is common for women to swim in the presence of male lifeguards, the rationale being that most women lifeguards may not be strong enough to carry out an ocean rescue if CH”V needed. However, even in this situation, many women will only go into the ocean in their robes, and this is certainly preferable, when possible.
However, you are correct in observing that some religious women don’t have a problem swimming in the presence of male lifeguards in their bathing suits. In their defense, I’d like to explain as follows. The regular Chiyuv to dress in a modest manner only applies in a public area, where Bnos Yisrael dress in this fashion. At a swimming pool or on the beach, if it is designated for women only, it would be permitted to dress as Bnos Yisroel normally do in this venue, in their bathing suits. However, there is another problem, that of “Lifnei Iver”, appearing in front of a man in a manner in which he will have improper thoughts, which applies in all situations. In Halacha we find a concept of “Torud B’Melachto”- when a man is involved in doing a job, we say that he is busy concentrating on properly doing his job, and you are not transgressing Lifnei Iver be appearing in front of him in an undressed manner since he will not be easily distracted from his job, as he would be if he just happened to be sitting there. This can be compared to a male doctor who is doing a routine checkup on a female patient, he is busy doing his job in the most professional manner, and we don’t have to be concerned that his mind might wander. However, if you are certain that this is not the case, it would certainly not be appropriate to swim in the presence of such a lifeguard, or to allow yourself to be examined by such a physician.
I’m not certain what you mean regarding the difference between swimming and other sports. If you don’t mind explaining, perhaps I could better help you.
I hope that this is helpful for you.
Rabbi Aaron TendlerMarch 22, 2011 7:29 pm at 7:29 pm #751296
I don’t know anything about the halacha, but it seems highly bizarre to me to assume that a man is not looking at the women because he is “too busy”.
If anything, he is not doing his job properly.
Also, there is no argument of it being necessary because of the danger, since you should just not go swimming.March 22, 2011 7:29 pm at 7:29 pm #751297Joseph / clark-kentMember
There is absolutely no heter for a male lifeguard who is Jewish. In very limited circumstances there is a heter (in the Igros Moshe I believe) for a non-Jewish male lifeguard. But not for pleasure swimming or activites. In that case one must not swim rather than use a non Jewish male.March 22, 2011 7:41 pm at 7:41 pm #751298
CK: can you link the teshuva on hebrewbooks please. or put the citation?March 22, 2011 7:49 pm at 7:49 pm #751299
“So, why would you want to swim in front of guys, knowing exactly what is going on?”
I dont. And neither do many other women. They will wear a long something to cover themselves up. Same way I wouldnt sing in front of men who are on the job.
Not even necessarily because i know whats going on in the mans head, more so because I feel weird singing or swimming in front of a man.March 22, 2011 8:30 pm at 8:30 pm #751300JamParticipant
I recently heard (I’m not sure if this is 100% correct, and i dont have a source for it) if a girl is in a place where there are only goyim (meaning- no jewish men) she does not have to be 100 percent tznius.
For example, if she is on a far off beach where there are NO jewish men, its ok for her to wear short sleaves, shorter skirt, no socks etc.
Just wondering if anyone else heard of this, and if theres a sourceMarch 22, 2011 8:39 pm at 8:39 pm #751301always hereParticipant
my husband & I had Nuweiba (beach), south of Eilat, on the coast of the Gulf of Aqaba, all to ourselves… it was gorgeous! too bad it’s part of Egypt now… when we went it was Israel.March 22, 2011 8:39 pm at 8:39 pm #751302Joseph / clark-kentMember
PBA: Not offhand. Try googling
igros moshe male lifeguard
halacha male lifeguard
I’m unable to google from here. Let us know if you find something useful.March 22, 2011 9:25 pm at 9:25 pm #751303
Seems to say it is muttar.
Says a G-d fearing woman or wife of talmid chacham shouldn’t because maybe he’ll come after her some other time.
He seems more concerned about the yichud issue than the tznius issue.March 22, 2011 11:15 pm at 11:15 pm #751304Mother in IsraelMember
All the separate beaches in Israel have male lifeguards and that doesn’t seem to stop anyone from going. Almost all of the frum women swim in either robes or long t-shirts which cover their knees and elbows though.March 22, 2011 11:27 pm at 11:27 pm #751305
How does that alleviate the clinging/tightness issue that the water causes.March 23, 2011 12:37 am at 12:37 am #751306brotherofursParticipant
the swimdress that i own does not cling to the body. in fact,the opposite happens. IN the water it’s regular and once you get out it does hang on you a bit but gets longer NOT tighter 😀
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