Kosher beach?

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  • #595808
    Sender Av
    Member

    I really want to go to the beach soon. Are there by any chance any kosher(i.e. separate) beaches somewhere in NY?

    #751258
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    During March?

    All of them.

    #751259
    Sender Av
    Member

    No, not during march, I was thinking more like June, July. I know that may not seem soon to you but to me it feels like December was yesterday etc.

    #751260
    s2021
    Member

    In New Jersey, before the summer months there are beaches that are beautifull and tot deserted

    #751261
    yoyo56
    Member

    some ppl who live in sea gate they are right off the beach if u know anyone who lives there u can go i know a school that took their students once

    #751262
    cshapiro
    Member

    the beaches in ny …. so not worth it. tel aviv beach, omg ma rabu masecha hashem, totally gorgeous!!!

    #751263
    Grandmaster
    Member

    Can’t the people living in the nearby houses (or possibly passerby’s) in Sea Gate see the people on the beach?

    #751264
    Sender Av
    Member

    Tel Aviv is a little far and $$$$ to get. More so than NY.

    #751265
    cshapiro
    Member

    sender..totall worth it!!! i was taken aback by its beauty and let me tell u, ive been to beaches all over, brighton (ugh), miami, boca, naples, jerseyshore, virginia, eilat, yam yamelach etc…nothing like tel aviv beach!!!

    #751266
    always here
    Participant

    cshapiro~ Ashdod beach!!!

    #751267
    toomuch00
    Member

    There are 2 beaches available in Seagate- one is very full always. the other one is some distance behind houses- you cant usually see actual people on the beach because its not extremely close and theres a small hill that separates it.. that would be your best option if you go to seagate. but this beach is not so nice-pretty dirty and stuff like that.

    #751268
    Grandmaster
    Member

    No men see those beaches?

    #751269
    toomuch00
    Member

    Of course they do.. some even go on it. But not jewish men. just some random people like walking their dogs or running.

    #751270
    Sender Av
    Member

    Grandmaster, what do I care if men see the beach. I need not to see women.

    #751271
    Grandmaster
    Member

    I don’t see how women can go there in swim gear if men (even non-Jewish) may see them there.

    #751272
    cshapiro
    Member

    there is a third option…get that long tshirt thingy from the ‘a trip to miami’ video…:)))

    #751273
    toomuch00
    Member

    grandmaster: well us jewish girls and women with their kids who go there, dont wear swim gear. we wear a coverup and the women wear long skirts and t-shirts. with bathing suit underneath. theres our solution 🙂

    #751274
    toomuch00
    Member

    sender av: if you dont want to see women by the beaches then seagates not a good choice..

    #751275
    Grandmaster
    Member

    Aren’t t-shirts, by definition, short sleeve (or close to it)?

    #751276
    toomuch00
    Member

    ok im sorry sheesh! i mean a LONG SLEEVE t-shirt.

    #751277
    brotherofurs
    Participant

    There are dresses that are made out of bathing suit material.Many Jewish women sell them in Flatbush. Our solution is solved. They even have different designs, and are not uncomfortable. They dry fast, and come in skirts and shirts too!

    #751278
    charliehall
    Participant

    Try the eastern end of Fire Island — about six miles of undeveloped and usually deserted beach between Watch Hill and Smith Point Park. When I went there years ago the only people around were the park rangers and sheriff’s deputies doing occasional patrols.

    #751279
    Grandmaster
    Member

    Doesn’t whatever is worn in the water cling, or becomes tight, to the body?

    #751280
    Grandmaster
    Member

    When I went there years ago the only people around were the park rangers and sheriff’s deputies doing occasional patrols.

    Park rangers and sheriff’s are no different than a member of the public in this regard.

    #751281
    dunno
    Member

    Grandmaster

    They wouldn’t have the same status as a male lifeguard (which to the best of my knowledge is allowed)?

    #751282
    Grandmaster
    Member

    No, since they aren’t a lifeguard. (Besides, even a male lifeguard isn’t permissible.)

    #751283
    mewho
    Participant

    wear a shvim kleid!

    contact deena , she will help you out

    #751284
    veteran
    Member

    I’ve seen kosher ham in NY, so I’m sure you can find a kosher beach too.

    #751285
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Why would a male lifeguard be ok?

    Are you allowed to nurse on a plane in front of a male pilot just because he is flying the plane and keeping you from dying?

    #751286

    popa-

    not that i agree with it…

    but its the same reason that frum male videographers are allowed to video a girls high school play where the girls are wearing pants and singing (live)

    or why ur allowed to go to a male dr when there are plenty of women drs available

    #751287

    I gotta admit- cshapiro is 100% right!

    Tel aviv beach is the most gorgeous ive seen…as long as you go on the private side. The mixed beach there is completely prust.

    #751288
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I don’t know about the doctor, but I really don’t know why a man would be allowed to watch women swimming just because he is a lifeguard.

    If you need a man to watch, then don’t go swimming.

    Are there no issurim when you are working? What if you do photography for the movie industry? Is that ok?

    #751289
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    But on that topic, I once met a friend of mine who said he was working for a goyish day camp.

    He said he had a heter to go swimming even though the female counselors were swimming because he is involved in his job.

    I asked him whether he found that it was true, that he was too busy to look at them.

    He “didn’t understand” the question.

    So, why would you want to swim in front of guys, knowing exactly what is going on?

    #751290
    anon1m0us
    Participant

    Don’t know what everyone is talking about. Tel-Aviv was Disgusting. There was dog waste in the water, and broken bottles in the sand. It was yuck!

    Now if you go to Dahab, near the blue hole, that is an awesome beach. Only two hours after Eilat.

    #751291

    go to the beach at night, that will solve the problem…

    #751292
    Sacrilege
    Member

    The “Heter” for a male lifeguard isnt for a Jewish male lifeguard to watch female swimmers, its so that female Jewish swimmers can go swimming.

    For example, all the girls camps rent out Mountain Creek in the summer and they have male lifeguards, are the girls able to walk around in bathing suits? Yes, on the grounds that the lifeguard is doing his job and not paying attention to the girls in their bathing suits.

    #751293
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Oh, of course he is not paying attention to all the girls wearing bathing suits.

    Only the pretty ones.

    This is so funny. I wonder how anyone believes this.

    #751294
    apushatayid
    Participant

    Never been to Tel Aviv, but the beach in San Juan Puerto Rico, wow. That is one beautiful part of the world.

    #751295
    anon1m0us
    Participant

    Here is a post from a similar question when asked to R’ Tendler.

    Thank you for a very interesting question. First of all, I was unaware that such a Psak had been rendered in a public manner, so I really can’t help you in determining which Rav may have announced this Psak. Most religious women that I know will only swim at a pool where there are female lifeguards, or will wear a robe if there are males present. I am aware, though, that at separate beaches in Israel it is common for women to swim in the presence of male lifeguards, the rationale being that most women lifeguards may not be strong enough to carry out an ocean rescue if CH”V needed. However, even in this situation, many women will only go into the ocean in their robes, and this is certainly preferable, when possible.

    However, you are correct in observing that some religious women don’t have a problem swimming in the presence of male lifeguards in their bathing suits. In their defense, I’d like to explain as follows. The regular Chiyuv to dress in a modest manner only applies in a public area, where Bnos Yisrael dress in this fashion. At a swimming pool or on the beach, if it is designated for women only, it would be permitted to dress as Bnos Yisroel normally do in this venue, in their bathing suits. However, there is another problem, that of “Lifnei Iver”, appearing in front of a man in a manner in which he will have improper thoughts, which applies in all situations. In Halacha we find a concept of “Torud B’Melachto”- when a man is involved in doing a job, we say that he is busy concentrating on properly doing his job, and you are not transgressing Lifnei Iver be appearing in front of him in an undressed manner since he will not be easily distracted from his job, as he would be if he just happened to be sitting there. This can be compared to a male doctor who is doing a routine checkup on a female patient, he is busy doing his job in the most professional manner, and we don’t have to be concerned that his mind might wander. However, if you are certain that this is not the case, it would certainly not be appropriate to swim in the presence of such a lifeguard, or to allow yourself to be examined by such a physician.

    I’m not certain what you mean regarding the difference between swimming and other sports. If you don’t mind explaining, perhaps I could better help you.

    I hope that this is helpful for you.

    Take care,

    Rabbi Aaron Tendler

    #751296
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I don’t know anything about the halacha, but it seems highly bizarre to me to assume that a man is not looking at the women because he is “too busy”.

    If anything, he is not doing his job properly.

    Also, there is no argument of it being necessary because of the danger, since you should just not go swimming.

    #751297

    There is absolutely no heter for a male lifeguard who is Jewish. In very limited circumstances there is a heter (in the Igros Moshe I believe) for a non-Jewish male lifeguard. But not for pleasure swimming or activites. In that case one must not swim rather than use a non Jewish male.

    #751298
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    CK: can you link the teshuva on hebrewbooks please. or put the citation?

    #751299

    “So, why would you want to swim in front of guys, knowing exactly what is going on?”

    I dont. And neither do many other women. They will wear a long something to cover themselves up. Same way I wouldnt sing in front of men who are on the job.

    Not even necessarily because i know whats going on in the mans head, more so because I feel weird singing or swimming in front of a man.

    #751300
    Jam
    Participant

    I recently heard (I’m not sure if this is 100% correct, and i dont have a source for it) if a girl is in a place where there are only goyim (meaning- no jewish men) she does not have to be 100 percent tznius.

    For example, if she is on a far off beach where there are NO jewish men, its ok for her to wear short sleaves, shorter skirt, no socks etc.

    Just wondering if anyone else heard of this, and if theres a source

    #751301
    always here
    Participant

    my husband & I had Nuweiba (beach), south of Eilat, on the coast of the Gulf of Aqaba, all to ourselves… it was gorgeous! too bad it’s part of Egypt now… when we went it was Israel.

    #751302

    PBA: Not offhand. Try googling

    igros moshe male lifeguard

    or

    halacha male lifeguard

    I’m unable to google from here. Let us know if you find something useful.

    #751303
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Here:

    http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=921&st=&pgnum=119

    Seems to say it is muttar.

    Says a G-d fearing woman or wife of talmid chacham shouldn’t because maybe he’ll come after her some other time.

    He seems more concerned about the yichud issue than the tznius issue.

    #751304

    All the separate beaches in Israel have male lifeguards and that doesn’t seem to stop anyone from going. Almost all of the frum women swim in either robes or long t-shirts which cover their knees and elbows though.

    #751305
    Grandmaster
    Member

    How does that alleviate the clinging/tightness issue that the water causes.

    #751306
    brotherofurs
    Participant

    the swimdress that i own does not cling to the body. in fact,the opposite happens. IN the water it’s regular and once you get out it does hang on you a bit but gets longer NOT tighter 😀

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