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OK, Who has one?
In each bedroom
love it!
My wife and one of my kids each have one.
I have one!
I got one for my RY as a chanuka gift and was told that he use it in his bedroom.
I think it’s funny how we find all these loopholes…
like an eruv?
it is a jab.
a loophole is a way found, to defy a law, that was not intended and is not in the spirit of the law
the kosher lamp is simply a clever way of applying Halacha
do you use a blech?
We love our kosher lamps. We have one in our room and one in our guestroom.
Nothing wrong with loopholes (it is like cooking on Yom Tov).
we have one, & my married children have in their homes, too
Eruv isn’t a loophole, it was designed into the law when it was enacted by the rabbis.
exactly eruv is not a “loophole” but it was an enactment of the Rabbaim to allow carrying which an forbidden m’ doraisa.
t
Mod80,
While that’s often the case that’s not always true. From Merriam-Webster:
a means of escape; especially : an ambiguity or omission in the text through which the intent of a statute, contract, or obligation may be evaded
Kosherlamp is the most brilliant and simple idea someone ever came up with.
And the best part is that all Rabbonim agree that it’s allowed to be used.
Nothing wrong with loopholes which the Torah explicitly allows (it is like cooking on Yom Tov).
There is actually a Bach that says the Rabbanan CAN NOT Asser something that the Torah explicitly says is mutar.
moshe
i think thats just about exactly what i said. the “intent may be evaded”
the kosher lamp is not the evasion of the law forbidding the turning on and off of a light. it simply has nothing to do with turning a light on and off. it is blocking a light. there is nothing assur about closing your window shade. closing your window shade is not a “loophole”
blocking a lamp light is not a loophole either.
there is no intent to get away with performing an assured act because the Rabbaim forgot to state something in the law. that would be a loophole
i have one in the guest room its great
good point mod-80
mod 80 – Whats a loophole different, loopholes are muttar?
Blech is not a loophole. It is the way we comply with a takanas chachamim on our modern cooking devices.
real-brisker im sorry i dont understand what you are asking or saying.
but whatever it is im tired of the word loophole already and have said enough about it
okay just this: “loophole” has an unpleasant connotation of essential dishonesty and disrespect for the law (without technically breaking it) this was applied by the poster to an application of Halacha and i objected to such a word being used in that regard.
exactly eruv is not a “loophole” but it was an enactment of the Rabbaim to allow carrying which an forbidden m’ doraisa.
I think you might have made a typo here.
An eruv will only allow you to carry in areas where it is Rabinically forbidden. It will NOT allow you to carry in an area where it is assur min HaTorah.
The Wolf
mod 80 – what i am saying is, i dont see any reason why loopholes are kineged halacha. they are perfectly fine to do.
wolf thank you for saying it might have been a typo (when you figured it probably wasnt) very kind and erlich of you.
it wasnt a typo, i was completely wrong
i wasnt thinking
thank you
There is actually a Bach that says the Rabbanan CAN NOT Asser something that the Torah explicitly says is mutar.
Polygamy?
The Wolf
apashutayid
my point exactly
brisker
yes
i just object to the connotations associated with the word “loophole”
There is actually a Bach that says the Rabbanan CAN NOT Asser something that the Torah explicitly says is mutar.
Polygamy?
The Wolf
That is not a issur M’Dirabannan. There is a Cherem on those who do it (I know that is lawyering, but it is a major distinction).
i forgot to add:
i apologize to charliehall
he was absolutely correct
It’s odd that they are calling this the Kosher Lamp. In the past, something that was designed to be permitted on Shabbos usually had that word as a prefix, e.g. Shabbos Clock for a timer switch.
I’m waiting for the Shabbos Microwave. 🙂
That is not a issur M’Dirabannan. There is a Cherem on those who do it (I know that is lawyering, but it is a major distinction).
What, exactly, is this “major distinction?” I fail to see one. Saying that something is a cherem is the same as saying that it is forbidden.*
The Wolf
* Lest you say that the distinction is that the second marriage is, post facto, valid, remember that the marriage of a kohen and a divorcee is also, post facto, valid, but yet forbidden.
depends if he marries a gerusho or chalutzo
cos a gerusho is d’oyrayso but chalutzo is only derabonon
WHAT!! I never new it was ossur for the chachomim to make gezeira on a something muttar d’oyrayso excuse me for the disbelief but
WHERE IS THIS BACH????
I would say that perhaps the distinction is (maybe I’m not sure please don’t shout at me) that it’s actually muttar but there’s a cherem on you that people aren’t allowed to have anything to do with you
but perhaps it’s not an ISSUR derabonon as such and in shomayim you won’t be punished
(not sure at all)
What, exactly, is this “major distinction?” I fail to see one. Saying that something is a cherem is the same as saying that it is forbidden.*
The Wolf
Three possible points:
1: Saying something is a “Cherem” does make it Assur, similar to a Neder. Placing someone in Cherem for doing something (which may be the case here, I do not know) is not creating an Issur. (which was my point)
2: Along those lines, there is the ability to make something Muttar (such as water) assur to you via a neder (or Cherem). That does not create an Issur D’Rabbanan on the object.
3: Being that the Cheremim of Rabbanu Gershom were not accepted by all of Klal Yisroel (and needed to be accepted in order to apply), it does not have the status of Issur of Chazal.
Along those lines, there is the ability to make something Muttar (such as water) assur to you via a neder (or Cherem). That does not create an Issur D’Rabbanan on the object.
but your oyver an aveyrah by doing so and if the chachomim ban something under cherem then it’s like an issur derabonon no?
but your oyver an aveyrah by doing so and if the chachomim ban something under cherem then it’s like an issur derabonon no?
No.
It is (more like) an Issur D’Oraysa, actually, if a real Neder is used.
We have the Kosher Lamp in 3 bedrooms – we love them!
TO: Gavra, Wolf,Blueprints.
For a discussion on
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go to http://www.kaduri.net/Index.asp?ArticleID=1567&CategoryID=264&Page=2
To quote a Rav I heard a while ago, “Some people have 613 problems”.
At any rate, we love our kosher lamps. Use them all week.
Thanks busy, I see my option 1 is the Chasam Sofer’s answer.
Are you aloud to open your window shade on shabbos? the kosher lamp does exectly the same. as to the spirit of the halacha, there is actuly a halacha to not sit in the dark on shabbos.
i made the same point here
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/kosher-lamp?view=all#post-184744
however i was careful to mention CLOSING the window shade.
OPENING the window shade is actually a shaila in some circumstances, if you open it deliberately to shine on your plants to make them grow.
yes but if you open it just to let in the light thets fine.
yes of course
i just was careful so no one would jump on the analogy and discredit it because of an unrelated problem.
“i apologize to charliehall”
accepted 🙂
I have used the Kosher Lamp. My only question on it, as compared with a window shade is that a window is not muktzah so covering it with a shade should not be, but I always thought that ANY lamp is.
thank you well meaning busy body.
and look at the teretz only to be goyzer on a MITZVAH is ossur acc to taz not a reshus (THERE’S YOUR TERETZ WOLFIE) so gavra at work who quoted the bach as saying ANY heter can’t be asured midrabonon must have misquoted him unless there’s a machlokes acharonim GIVE ME A MEKOR!!! FOR THE BACH GAVRA AT WORK
As per the instructions it is indeed ossur to move it.
U are allowed to turn the cover.
“I have used the Kosher Lamp. My only question on it, as compared with a window shade is that a window is not muktzah so covering it with a shade should not be, but I always thought that ANY lamp is.”
The lamp is muktza but the cover is a seperate unconected peice and therefore not muktzah.
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