June 7, 2013 7:31 am at 7:31 am #609568
I have a very hard time reading (most)Jewish books and have even stopped in middle of one due to the poor quality. I read to relax and its a good outlet. Unfortunately, most non-jewish books now adays are full of immorality. Does anyone have any recomandations of clean good books?June 7, 2013 3:33 pm at 3:33 pm #1021993fkellyMember
Define immorality… Everyone has a different definiton so no one can recommend unless we know what you want!June 7, 2013 4:08 pm at 4:08 pm #1021994Shopping613 🌠Participant
I just keep away from really really bad ones, like twilight, so far i havent read it, mostly cuz ive heard the stuff in it is worse than the hunger games. Which is my opinion is the worst im ever gonna read, cuz its really not so bad…..June 7, 2013 4:13 pm at 4:13 pm #1021995
Curious George.June 7, 2013 4:53 pm at 4:53 pm #1021996batsevenParticipant
Dunno if you could find clean, contemporary books nowadays.
You might wanna look at old classics that were written a while back, though I don’t know of any myself.June 7, 2013 5:02 pm at 5:02 pm #1021997rebdonielMember
What genre are you interested in?June 7, 2013 5:02 pm at 5:02 pm #1021998
As long as the classic isn’t The Scarlet Letter.June 7, 2013 5:04 pm at 5:04 pm #1021999Torah613TorahParticipant
Try non-fiction.June 7, 2013 5:15 pm at 5:15 pm #1022000maldruMember
O’HenryJune 7, 2013 5:21 pm at 5:21 pm #1022001Luna LovegoodParticipant
Terry Prachet, Cornelia Funke (more children’s books but an amazing writer), Trenton Lee Stewart (also more for children but a great story line- really makes you think), Christopher Paolini, Arthur Conan Doyle, Ray Bradbury and John Green to name a few.
A warning about John Green: Depending on what you’d consider immoral you might want to be careful with his stuff.June 7, 2013 5:26 pm at 5:26 pm #1022002🐵 ⌨ GamanitParticipant
I don’t know how old you are, but when I was younger I enjoyed the Shadow Children series by Margaret Peterson Haddix. They’re clean books.June 7, 2013 5:37 pm at 5:37 pm #1022003nishtdayngesheftParticipant
The glue used in the binding of many books is a mucalage derived from rendered horses. You can hardly call any of these books kosher.June 7, 2013 5:47 pm at 5:47 pm #1022004moishykMember
Well, do u want to read jewish books?June 7, 2013 6:06 pm at 6:06 pm #1022005
Terry Pratchett is clean for a given definition of clean.
I hate it when that Happens. I love Neverwhere, by Neil Gaiman, but only about five curse words, etc. in the whole flipping book are enough to prevent me from recommending it to people as a clean book.
I mean, really… what exactly did it contribute to the plot? Negative zilch.June 7, 2013 7:16 pm at 7:16 pm #1022006
You can always go with Neil Gaiman’s children’s books–Coraline, The Graveyard Book. Those are fantastic at any age. ^_^
InterWorld is also good. Also, M is for Magic, but I haven’t read it yet. Apparently, it’s a child-friendly selection of short stories culled from his existing short story anthologies.June 7, 2013 7:22 pm at 7:22 pm #1022007gavra_at_workParticipant
Terry Pratchett is clean for a given definition of clean.
I have to repeat fkelly. Define “clean”.
How about “The rise and fall of the Third Reich” or “Bellum Judaicum” by Titus Flavius Josephus. Those will keep you busy for a while.June 7, 2013 7:46 pm at 7:46 pm #1022008
forget it, mods 🙂
have a good shabbosJune 7, 2013 7:59 pm at 7:59 pm #1022009zahavasdadParticipant
Grimms Fairy Tales except for the Anti-Semtic oneJune 7, 2013 8:09 pm at 8:09 pm #1022010
Great topic- I also have a hard time finding clean books to read that are written well.
This was clean and a good read: Johnny Walker no links
Also, try the books by Malcolm Gladwell (Blink, The Outliers and The Tipping Point). All reasonably clean and interesting.
I don’t know what your preferences are but I have all the books I’ve read, saved on my library profile so I can send you some, if you tell me a bit about yourself (male/female??) and what type of books you like to read.June 7, 2013 8:13 pm at 8:13 pm #1022011
O, also The Prime Ministers- by Yehuda Avner- it’s a must read and will keep you busy for a loooong time 😉June 7, 2013 8:16 pm at 8:16 pm #1022012
O Sorry, didn’t realize I couldn’t paste links. If you want to find the Johnny Walker book- google ‘Johnny Walker Spy family book’ and look on amazon – they have it.June 7, 2013 8:29 pm at 8:29 pm #1022013akupermaParticipant
It depends on how you define “kosher”, and perhaps is ultimately a question for whomever you rely on for halachic decision making.
In the case of literature there are both issues of decency (what we don’t talk about on YWN) and also of apikorses. Many stories such as Moby Dick, Harry Potter, The Chronicles of Narnia, etc., all are considered to have “Christian” themes. For non-fiction what is “kosher” is much more complicated since you read non-fiction not for entertainment but to gather facts to make judgments pertaining to the real world.
Perhaps it would be useful if there was a site that review non-Jewish literature from a Torah perspective (and written by someone who if familiar enough with the goyim’s culture to realize a religious perspective).June 7, 2013 10:48 pm at 10:48 pm #1022014
Thanks for all the responses. I am more bothered by decency issues as opposed to “christian themes”. Im looking for young adult books, and I found most Jewish books to expensive and mostly poorly written. I have read all Christopher Paolonis books and have really enjoyed them. Anything else like those would be great.June 8, 2013 6:50 pm at 6:50 pm #1022015Shopping613 🌠Participant
Peter and the starcatchersJune 9, 2013 1:38 am at 1:38 am #1022016
You read Lord of the Rings?
Forget about inappropriate- there are exactly six female characters in the whole series if I count correctly (Arwen, Eowyn, Galadriel, Goldberry, Rosie, and Lobelia) and three of them are in it for about a chapter combined. In The Hobbit, in fact, there is a grand total of ZERO X-chromosome-only characters to the extent that they had to shove Galadriel into the movie in order to prevent people from complaining about discrimination or something.June 9, 2013 2:44 am at 2:44 am #1022017DRBParticipant
anything by jodi picoult. shes the best!June 9, 2013 2:59 am at 2:59 am #1022018WIYMember
“I am more bothered by decency issues as opposed to “christian themes”.
Christian themes should bother you very much. If you read kefira it becomes a part of your thought process whether you want it to or not so be careful what you read. Additionally Im pretty sure its assur to read such things.
“Im looking for young adult books, and I found most Jewish books to expensive and mostly poorly written.”
Get a library card. Theres also a Jewish library in Brooklyn, and Im sure Lakewood has one as well. If you don’t live in any of those places, most Jewish books are in the library system and you can request books and they will send them to your local library.
Poorly written is no excuse to read things that are assur. Try to find the Jewish books that are well written.June 9, 2013 4:31 am at 4:31 am #1022019
To WIY. Akuperma wrote that HP has a christian theme. I have the books an i didnt find anything thats kfira in them. I dont believe that its assur to read HP because of this christian theme, or any other books like them.June 9, 2013 12:50 pm at 12:50 pm #1022020ChortkovParticipant
Akuperma – what “christian themes” are there in Harry Potter?June 9, 2013 2:05 pm at 2:05 pm #1022021farrockgrandmaParticipant
Rochelle Krich, Alan FurstJune 9, 2013 3:29 pm at 3:29 pm #1022022
to the extent that they had to shove Galadriel into the movie in order to prevent people from complaining about discrimination or something.
and sometimes you just wish they didn’t…(looking at you, Star Trek Into Darkness)June 9, 2013 4:48 pm at 4:48 pm #1022023
OOM: Yes, that’s what my friend said too… I get the feeling that didn’t go very well.
It’s like the whole nonsense with the Bechdel Test. Most of my favorite movies wouldn’t pass, but SO WHAT?June 9, 2013 4:50 pm at 4:50 pm #1022024ToiParticipant
juny b jones. best book ever.June 9, 2013 5:41 pm at 5:41 pm #1022025fkellyMember
I love John Green, but as Luna said- you gotta be careful.
Cassandra Clare is a really good author!
Divergent by Veronica Roth, one of my favorites!!June 9, 2013 6:01 pm at 6:01 pm #1022026
I wouldn’t use the Bechdel test to rate movies. It’s really more of a gimmick used to raise awareness.
And the Bechdel test is almost irrelevant when it comes to STID–the problem really come from their outstandingly bad character development (I have heard the word “caricatures” used) across the board.June 9, 2013 6:13 pm at 6:13 pm #1022027
OOM: Sorry, I was bringing up two different issues here.
1) STID was BAD. Part of it was because they shoved in superfluous characters to make feminists happy. (Not all of it, but some, apparently. All I know about this is from my friend who hated this movie’s guts.)
2) The Bechdel test is stupid and the whole awareness raising thing doesn’t make sense. I don’t think anyone’s going to seriously rate movies based on this, but even the concept is weird.
I think part of the thing that gets me annoyed is that if you look in the wrong places, you find all kinds of people expecting that if your favorite movie doesn’t pass the test, just dump your Blu-rays in the bin! It’s kind of pathetic. But maybe it’s just me- as long as the movie is good, I really don’t care what types of chromosomes the main characters have.June 9, 2013 6:48 pm at 6:48 pm #1022028Menachem MelamedParticipant
Some of the older classics are OK. I beleive that Jules Verne is pretty good.June 9, 2013 6:54 pm at 6:54 pm #1022029
Part of it was because they shoved in superfluous characters to make feminists happy.
No, that wasn’t it. They were trying to incorporate as many “The Wrath of Khan” elements as they could, and the extra characters came with that. But it just came off as a bunch of hodgepodge elements thrown together, with none of them very fleshed out. Or even making any sense (the magical tribble?). Not to mention, The Wrath of Khan’s already been done.
I don’t think anyone’s going to seriously rate movies based on this, but even the concept is weird.[…]…you find all kinds of people expecting that if your favorite movie doesn’t pass the test, just dump your Blu-rays in the bin!
The concept being female characters universally not being developed beyond their association with other characters? Definitely weird. And like I said, the point is not to rate the media in question, or label it as “no good” and throw it out. I’ve seen it pointed out that almost all of Pixar’s movies don’t pass the Bechdel test, and I don’t think anyone would say they are no good because of that. I certainly don’t. Because that isn’t the point.June 9, 2013 8:41 pm at 8:41 pm #1022030
OOM: Like I said, I’m not a Star Trek person. This is based on what my friends said. She is a definite (rabid) Trekkie, so I figured she was quotable. That was her impression.
I don’t mean throwing it out because it’s not good- I meant throwing it out as a statement. I was honestly beyond shocked to see someone suggest that. It’s ludicrous. (Maybe I just read the wrong stuff. The problem is that I hold so many different types of opinions that I can’t just stick with one kind of thing that agrees with me.)
And if anyone had said that Pixar’s movies aren’t good, FOR ANY REASON, I would’ve known about it by now and the holder of that opinion would by now have had his/her head through the trash masher, so yeah :).June 9, 2013 10:23 pm at 10:23 pm #1022031anon1m0usParticipant
Frankenstein by Marry Shelly is a great classic.
There are tons of great books, but the definition of clean is subjective.June 14, 2013 12:58 am at 12:58 am #1022032
writersoul: Have you seen the new Hobbit trailer? How about that, eh? ^_^June 14, 2013 1:32 am at 1:32 am #1022033
The new, new Hobbit trailer? Like for the second movie? No, I haven’t.
(BTW, I can’t believe there are going to be 3 movies anyway. I mean, seriously.)
I didn’t see the first movie, either. I don’t know why, but I like the books better than the movies. Maybe it’s because I watched them when I was younger. My friend (the trekkie) says I’m insane.
I’ll get back to you after I watch it, but how about what in particular?June 14, 2013 2:58 am at 2:58 am #1022034
I try to be objective in my comparison of books and movies made from books, so as not to end up prejudiced against a movie merely because its source book was so good. That being said, I liked the original trilogy of movies enough, but still felt that they didn’t really translate very well from the books–which was inevitable with a series like The Lord of the Rings, but still. I think The Hobbit movie series is doing much better in this regard, if only because the source material is more manageable.
I was also a little skeptical when I heard about the decision to make three Hobbit movies, but once I saw how well they did the first, I was okay with it. You should definitely see it, by the way. It is great. ^_^
Oh and as for the trailer, I mention it agav your first comment about The Hobbit on this thread. Go watch it to find out. ^_^June 14, 2013 8:12 am at 8:12 am #1022035notasheepMember
there’s a fantastic series of books called The Tapestry – The Hound of Rowan, The Second Siege, The Fiend and the Forge, The Maelstrom (the last book is coming out in October).
To clarify the issue, if the author is deliberately putting his kfira beliefs into his stories, they should not be read (think Phillip Pullman). However, reading stories that reference other religions, pagan or monotheistic is fine, as long as the reader is aware it’s just a story (although you should be careful with pagan religions that are made up). For instance, the Roman Mysteries series is set in Rome, which was a pagan culture – but that has nothing to do with the plotline.June 14, 2013 11:56 am at 11:56 am #1022036
If your into private eye/police genre i suggest the Monk series by Lee Goldberg I’ve been reading them and they are squeaky clean.June 14, 2013 12:52 pm at 12:52 pm #1022037iBump 2.0Participant
I am more bothered by decency issues
I have read all Christopher Paolonis books and have really enjoyed them.
if you are talking about the inheritance cycle (and i assume you mean Christopher Paolini), you can hardly say that in the last couple of books there are NO decency issues. so are you saying that that level is mutter?
im not saying that those issues bother me, but there are some people that it would. i know someone who bought the last 2 books and went through them with a permanent marker before giving them to thier teenage son. im just pointing out that there are different levels for everyone.
so again, is that a level that you are willing to accept? and do you want people do give you suggestions based on that?
🙂 Bump 🙂June 14, 2013 1:06 pm at 1:06 pm #1022038iBump 2.0Participant
and on the topic of the lord of the rings and the hobbit: i very very rarely put down a book before finishing it, but these i just couldnt finish! i mean, come on! 150 pages talking about the grass??? seriously!?!?
🙂 Bump 🙂June 14, 2013 6:57 pm at 6:57 pm #1022039
OOM: Hmmm… so they’ve got another throwaway token female character. Zippitydoodah.
You notice, also, that they have Legolas in it.
Movie fan pandering.
I do try not to judge movies solely on whether they’re AS GOOD as the books they are based on, but that’s not really the issue I had with them- I just hated all those disgusting monsters and battle scenes… I’m more of a light comedy type.
*ducks for cover*
I was also twelve years old…
But from what I understand, this is a bit lighter (which makes sense, as The Hobbit is about ten times lighter than LotR, both literally and figuratively), so I’ll probably check it out over the summer.
iBump: I just finished (for the third time) Les Miserables, which has 19 chapters entirely describing the full, embellished history of Napoleon’s fall at Waterloo. It also has an entire book’s worth (the whole work is divided into five volumes, each of which is divided into books, each of which is divided into chapters- yeah) of background on a character whose only contribution to the book is to give a pair of candlesticks to the main character. It’s also one of my favorite books of all time, so yeah, I can deal with 150 pages of grass.June 16, 2013 7:57 am at 7:57 am #1022040jewishfeminist02Member
Tom SawyerJune 19, 2013 10:23 pm at 10:23 pm #1022041
Hmmm… so they’ve got another throwaway token female character. Zippitydoodah.
You notice, also, that they have Legolas in it.
Movie fan pandering.
Come on. You can’t make those judgments until you’ve seen the two movies. You have no idea what their roles will be.
Another thing: yes, you can look at it from the perspective of yeah they just put her in because otherwise people would grumble that there aren’t any female characters–and maybe you’re right that that was the primary reason for the inclusion of her role. And yes, you can look at Legolas’ inclusion as “movie fan pandering.” In my opinion, you are missing out by looking at things through this perspective. If you want to make a critical analysis of a book-to-film adaptation, you have to look at things from a storytelling perspective–and I think that from a storytelling perspective, the devices you are criticizing make more sense than you credit them with.
First off: they are trying to adapt a good book into a good movie. To adapt a story successfully from one medium to another, you really have to reinvent a lot of the storytelling mechanics. Obviously, you have to be careful to capture the essence of the original narrative–but if you try a straight text-to-screen adaptation, you surely will not capture it. The directors and writers of The Hobbit movies decided to do this by expanding the narrative and adding some more non-action sequences (in the first movie, the scene with Galadriel and Saruman). In my opinion, this balances the yay swashbuckling adventures with their more serious context (which may have been Tolkien’s intent–see my next point).
Also, another thing to keep in mind is that he’s not trying to just adapt The Hobbit, which is really just about Bilbo’s adventures, he’s trying to incorporate the larger context that is hinted at in the piece “The Quest of Erebor”–the implications the quest held for the rest of Middle Earth. As far as the first movie goes, any the non-book content was exclusively dedicated to developing this. Dunno how the next one will turn out, but I am quite willing to accept the extra characters and seemingly un-Bilbo related action in light of the good job they did with the first one.
Also, stam, as far as book adaptations go, this is the closest I’ve ever seen to a close-to-the-book adaptation that was still a good (fantastic, really) film.
So basically, what I’m saying is while your complaints may have validity,
(a) They are irrelevant if the extra elements make it a better movie, and
(b) This may be more in line with Tolkien’s ideas regarding The Hobbit than a sticking-to-the-book adaptation would be.
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