March 24, 2015 8:21 pm at 8:21 pm #615262
Now, I say this with the greatest respect, but, looking through the old threads, it would seem virtually every single one is more interesting than most of the stuff on the homepage.
It’s just that the really interesting discussions I remember seem to have faded away somewhat. Feel free to disagree, this is just my personal opinion. So may I suggest the bumping of old, interesting threads, or simply starting an argument more often.
Again, I apologize if I offend any who disagree, and thanking any of you who don’t.March 24, 2015 9:18 pm at 9:18 pm #1174217
I had the same thought today, when I was browsing through some of the older threads, but I didn’t think the posters here would appreciate the comment! A lot of the topics which 3 or 4 years ago were allowed to take place would be closed much quicker these days (possibly because the Moderators are getting more strict, but also possibly because lots of the posters here are far too sensitive and don’t understand jokes, and take things not intended so as personal insults), and there are arguably less controversial/funny/bored posters than there used to be. The fighting that went on here some time ago was legendary!March 24, 2015 9:26 pm at 9:26 pm #1174218March 24, 2015 10:03 pm at 10:03 pm #1174219
Agreed. Some of the threads yekke2 linked to are brilliant. Bring back the arguments! The only true disagreement currently trending is the whole vaccination debate, and that just doesn’t do it for me. And all the other threads are about tragedies. Not that these aren’t important, but couldn’t we spice it up a bit? I think it’ll be a good idea just to find an old argument and restart it.March 24, 2015 10:30 pm at 10:30 pm #1174220☕️coffee addictParticipant
I think it’ll be a good idea just to find an old argument and restart it.
so you WANT to be a ba’al machlokes?
what do you get out of arguing?
we should find as little as possible (outside of torah) to argue aboutMarch 24, 2015 10:38 pm at 10:38 pm #1174221
I think it’ll be a good idea just to find an old argument and restart it.
I always get frustrated when (in real life experience) conversations become arguments instead of discussions. As a general rule, arguments end up with repeating the same thing over and over again and continue to getting personal, and a lot of fighting over what I meant and what I said and who was right.
Discussions [in real life] are much more constructive. It’s not about me and you; it’s not about whose write or wrong. I wonder what is more interesting on an online blog?March 24, 2015 10:44 pm at 10:44 pm #1174222
we should find as little as possible (outside of torah) to argue about
That is the intended outcome – after you hear what I have to say, you delete all your arguments out of sheer embarrassment as you come to understand the true logical and rationalistic explanation of whatever topic you are talking about. It is a lot of fun.
Especially on an online forum, where you know that what a person writes isn’t necessarily what they think. In fact, one of the posters here told me that he enjoys taking a side in any discussion/argument – whether he agrees with that side or not, depending on his mood – to take the intellectual challenge of arguing your point until the bitter/sweet end.
They aren’t real Machloikes (not including the MO/Zionist etc.), merely exchange of opinions in an intellectual discourse.March 24, 2015 11:08 pm at 11:08 pm #1174223
To quote a group of eminent scholars on the subject of arguments:
“An argument’s a collective series of statements to establish a definite proposition. It isn’t just saying ‘No it isn’t'”
“Yes it is”
“No it isn’t!”March 24, 2015 11:24 pm at 11:24 pm #1174224🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
NeutiquamErro – I have to thank you. So many times posters have tried to make the same point but have said things like, “nobody interesting posts anymore”, or “where have all the good posters gone to?” etc. I always feel hurt by that, as if someone walked into a room full of people and asked, “nobody’s here? where is everyone?”
Your point was made so gently and I am grateful to you for that.March 24, 2015 11:25 pm at 11:25 pm #1174225
To quote the same eminent scholars:
“An Argument is an intellectual process; contradiction is just the automatic gainsay of anything the other person says…”
I haven’t heard that in years! Thanks for bringing it up!March 24, 2015 11:31 pm at 11:31 pm #1174226
Several points. Firstly, I am not suggesting starting an argument, merely continuing one. This is generally more fun, as it allows one to nitpick, much the same as I am currently doing.
And in the same vein, CoffeeAddict, aren’t you in danger of starting an argument here? So in keeping with your own dictum, I’ll steer away from disagreeing too strongly. But, if it isn’t too controversial, the answer to your question is Yes, I derive great pleasure from it.
And regarding Y2’s point regarding arguing – sorry, disagreeing amicably – online, I believe it has one strong advantage, that it enables the participants to be far more concise and to the point than in real life, where there is a much higher likelihood of getting sidetracked.
But of course, none of that is what I actually think.March 24, 2015 11:36 pm at 11:36 pm #1174227
“No it isn’t”
“Yes it is!”
“Not at all”
*bell rings*March 24, 2015 11:40 pm at 11:40 pm #1174228
Not necessarily, I could be arguing in my spare time!March 24, 2015 11:46 pm at 11:46 pm #1174229
You are very kind. The point I was making was that the subjects being brought up over the recent past tend to be quite dry and/or unimaginative, but not that there is any deficiency in those participating. I myself have not brought up any contentious, interesting subject for discussion, and therefore am part of the percieved problem (although that is a strong term for it), not the solution.
And what I am mainly advocating is the continuation of the ‘oldies but goodies’ that I recall from the past. For example, the Harry Potter thread, which has had less traffic recently. And that virtually every subject has been covered, and that we should attempt to approach these from a new angle, and not simply use this excellent, well run forum as a place to register one’s sadness and/or outrage. Not that that is bad, but simply that perhaps some more discussions could be reinvigorated or instigated on some more contentious or funny issues.
Of course, this is all a matter of taste. Some may enjoy it perfectly as it is, and ‘al taam vehareyach…’. I simply wish it to be that tiny amount more interesting. I hope none find this viewpoint offensive, as that was not my intention, as I explain above.March 24, 2015 11:55 pm at 11:55 pm #1174230
Another ‘issue’ is the tendency some posters have to hijack threads. One or two off topic posts won’t ruin the thread, but a subconversation will. So if you have a discussion which isn’t directly related to the thread at hand, but does have a connection, simply start a new thread and post a link.March 25, 2015 12:53 am at 12:53 am #1174231
I agree with your complaint. It’s especially annoying when the side point is banal and the main topic isn’t. It can throw a good discussion off course.
But it is worth remembering that it’s not always for the worst. The Harry Potter thread, in my opinion the best in the CR, is really about similarities between yiddishkeit and HP. And then someone mentioned time travel and it all went a bit crazy, and as it veered off track it became something wonderful. But I still agree with your original point.March 25, 2015 1:10 am at 1:10 am #1174233
I am afraid we are partially to blame for the hijacking of the Harry Potter thread. But that thread had already died down from its original conversation; continuing it in a different vein wasn’t so terrible. In the middle of an ongoing conversation, however, it is wrong to change the subject.March 25, 2015 1:12 am at 1:12 am #1174234
5 Bad Habits of Orthodox Jews. Now there’s a good idea for a new thread.March 25, 2015 3:49 pm at 3:49 pm #1174235Little FroggieParticipant
Not really sure your’re waiting for my most treasured ‘pieces’…March 25, 2015 10:43 pm at 10:43 pm #1174236
It seems that somebody misunderstood NeutiquamErro and thought your meant ‘Keep The CR Moving’.
I propose s/he is banned under the First Decree of the Keep The Coffee Room Interesting Movement!!March 25, 2015 10:56 pm at 10:56 pm #1174237
AyeMarch 25, 2015 11:03 pm at 11:03 pm #1174238
AyeMarch 25, 2015 11:05 pm at 11:05 pm #1174239
The ayes to the right have it. Motion carried.March 25, 2015 11:27 pm at 11:27 pm #1174240
(Am I too late?)March 25, 2015 11:54 pm at 11:54 pm #1174241
As far as I am aware, there is no deadline to voting in the KTCRIM. if the ‘Nays’ outweigh the ‘Ayes’ then the motion will be repealed.
Therefore the ban still stands, with all the power the Movement can apply to it, whatever that power be.March 26, 2015 12:02 am at 12:02 am #1174242
Whilst we’re dealing with this matter, I wish to propose a second motion to the General Committee of the KTCRIM. This proposal will be true to the stated aim of the group that it is to keep the CR interesting, a side point to which is that it should be free of mindless nonsense that hinders the interesting content.
That is that the Moderators, blessed be they, shall remove, and not merely close, any thread instigated by the banned individual, if it is deemed to be unworthy of discussion or of any merit. This shall apply to any thread that fails to generate a true discussion and/or is self-reverential and/or makes no or little sense.
These shall be removed under the Second Decree of the Keep The Coffee Room Interesting Movement.March 26, 2015 12:05 am at 12:05 am #1174243
Awesome! 🙂March 26, 2015 12:05 am at 12:05 am #1174244Yayin Yashan B’Kli ChadashParticipant
The Harry Potter thread started off good, but then morphed into a discussion of different questions and comments on the books. More appropriate for a Harry Potter fan club site than Yeshiva World!
I don’t think the real complaint is that there are no more controversial threads. I think you are saying that there is no content and the threads are about meaningless and non applicable topics. I second the motion.March 26, 2015 12:54 am at 12:54 am #1174245
AyeMarch 26, 2015 2:19 am at 2:19 am #1174246
I fundamentally agree with you as far as the meaningless topics are concerned, but the point I was making, and still am, is that there are fewer topics that provoke discussion. And good discussions arise from interesting topics and/or disagree. It is not that disagreeing is the ultimate aim, it’s addressing topics that people care about enough and are interested in enough to make their opinions known and discuss them. This does not necessarily mean controversial.
And as for the Harry Potter thread, I disagree completely. The discussion was interesting, fun and involving, so who really cares if it was a bit random. We all enjoyed it, as far as I could tell. And nobody made you take part. I don’t see how it is different from the Discworlder’s Club or that kind of thing. It is a representation from the YWN users of their appreciation for a certain inyan, and I can’t see anything wrong with that.March 27, 2015 1:47 am at 1:47 am #1174247Yayin Yashan B’Kli ChadashParticipant
Look at that! We’re arguing already! Mission accomplished! (“No we’re not!”) Btw,I don’t think out isreally machlokes, being as we don’t know each others identities. Nothing is personal, and there are no hurt feelings. We’re just trying to make our points.March 27, 2015 3:38 am at 3:38 am #1174248
Let’s be totally clear. Airing differences on an ideological point is not machloikes. It is a discussion, or even, if that’s what you want to call it, an argument. But in all my experience on the CR (insignificant, perhaps), very rarely have I seen any personal differences or insults thrown about, and on the very rare occasions anybody has even approached, let alone crossed, the thin red line, both the Mods and the other posters have taken them up on it.March 30, 2015 2:36 am at 2:36 am #1174249☢️ Rand0m3x 🎲Participant
I think “self-referential” was intended.
“In fact, one of the posters here told me that he enjoys taking a
side in any discussion/argument – whether he agrees with that side
or not, depending on his mood – to take the intellectual challenge
of arguing your point until the bitter/sweet end.”
Interesting…March 30, 2015 5:03 am at 5:03 am #1174250
The campaign is a success! The number of posts and threads have increased sharply over the past few days. Baruch HaShem for Pesach vacation and bein hazemanim! 🙂March 30, 2015 9:14 am at 9:14 am #1174251
I think both terms can be usedMarch 30, 2015 10:02 am at 10:02 am #1174252
NeutiquamErro didn’t ask for an increase in quantity of posting; he wanted an increase on the quality of the posts.April 19, 2015 12:14 pm at 12:14 pm #1174253
There was a couple of interesting threads, but we seem to have gone back to a little bit of mild trolling or other types of posts which don’t have any response…April 19, 2015 8:17 pm at 8:17 pm #1174254
Definitely deserving of a well placed Bump.
Again, and I make this point with the utmost care, the Coffee Room appears to have lost some of its edge, so to speak. By this I mean the level of inane, self referential and slightly, sorry to say, boring threads appear to have increased, whilst the truly interesting topics seem to fall into obscurity despite the desperate attempts at sustained life support from several honourable members. I say this not to offend, but to draw attention this issue. And kudos to Yekke2 for doing just that.April 19, 2015 9:10 pm at 9:10 pm #1174255YW Moderator-29 👨💻Moderator
whilst the truly interesting topics seem to fall into obscurity despite the desperate attempts at sustained life support from several honourable members. I say this not to offend,
Oh, sure, why would someone be offended by being told their posts were boring, desperate attempts…hmm, I wonder what you say when you do want to offend.April 19, 2015 9:11 pm at 9:11 pm #1174256
29 – Trust me, you don’t want to know. I’ve been on the receiving end a couple of times. 🙂April 19, 2015 9:41 pm at 9:41 pm #1174257mw13Participant
I think a large part of issue here is that the current generation of CRers are just too nice and polite. Which is obviously a good thing, but it does result in a less interesting conversations. In order to have a truly memorable discussion, the participants have to be either brilliant, or really be going after each other.
But not to worry; Yom Haatzmaut is almost upon us… 😉April 19, 2015 10:28 pm at 10:28 pm #1174258
Whilst I am not calling your vigilance into question, were you to properly read my previous post you would observe that the ‘desperate attempts’ quote was a compliment to those ‘honourable’ members (And I do not use the phrase ironically a la Mark Anthony) who revive and sustain such fascinating topics such as the various philosophical, hashkafic and of course, Harry Potter threads nobly and in the face of mounting obscurity. These proud individuals bow not to the tide of oncoming GoGoGo missives, nor cave to the various ‘How Can I Get My Cat To Stop Supporting Chelsea’ threads that overwhelm those of real interest. These fine, honourable people whose boots I am not worthy to kiss (Unusual turn of phrase, but with a purpose), who do not cease preforming the noble task of bumping older threads that contain substance only really seen in a bygone past. I salute them. And if I have inadvertently given the impression that those performing this vital function, in the true bulldog spirit of the KTCRIM, are in any way doing anything other than a great service to the rest of us, then I apologise sincerely.April 19, 2015 10:29 pm at 10:29 pm #1174259
A basic problem we have is that almost always (except for in Halachic discussions), there is a clearly defined correct position and an incorrect position. And those knowledgeable/intelligent enough will take the correct position, and those arguing are easy prey. This leads to a few half hearted arguments followed by a [silent] concession by the wrong party.
For some reason, in the Olden Days, they didn’t have that problem. There were many intelligent posters who were fighting cats and dogs. Perhaps the reason was that they were taking different ideological points of view, and from there battled it our on a personal and general level.
The problem doesn’t affect me at the moment, for I begin zman again tomorrow. But for the rest of you, I wish you best of luck.April 19, 2015 11:48 pm at 11:48 pm #1174260screwdriverdelightParticipant
These fine, honourable people whose boots I am not worthy to kiss
Is there an emoticon for vomiting?April 19, 2015 11:58 pm at 11:58 pm #1174261
I think yekke2 has really hit the nail on the head here. One of the key problems with many debates is that they end up with an intelligent majority agreeing vociferously, whilst those, shall we say, less sensical posters who began in opposition either moderate their views or cease to oppose the unopposable. Case in point, the Smartphone thread, which ended up with the rather unedifying spectacle of numerous people seeming to disagree, but not actually diverting in any respect. This then evolves into the inevitable nitpicking and/or slow slide into obscurity.
So perhaps what is required is more balanced contentious issues on which the consensus is less obvious. I shamelessly attempted to artificially create such a discussion in the shape of the Abusers thread, in the vain hope that this would lead to a real, interesting involving discussion. To a certain extent, I think this worked. But even on this topical, controversial issue, a consensus soon emerged. So what I shall term the Y2 Conundrum remained unresolved.
But that got me thinking. Why should the Coffee Room be relegated to a noisy debating chamber? Not that I am insinuating this is the case, if anything this is self-criticism. As the name suggests, this is the online version of the fabled Coffee Room, that mystical place found in many a shul, yeshiva, staffroom or office, where, if one is lucky, that rarest of things, the perfect ‘shmooze’, may emerge. And, perhaps, just perhaps, The true spirit of the fledgling KTCRIM would not be to inspire merely debate, but to capture the spirit of a shmooze. The witty repartee, the rich vignette of humour, anecdotes, stories, views, politics, and of course, the occasional foray into the metaphorical aforementioned chamber. Perhaps this is the secret of the CR of yesteryear, where the main objective was not to persuade, argue, anger, provoke and/or preach, but to entertain. This is the key behind many of the most successful, enduring threads. The Harry Potter thread, the Shidduch Stories thread, the Riddle thread. All instances where the driving force is the desire to not just converse, but to enjoy oneself in the process. Of course, for the most part, this is already the case. But as an ethos, it could spur the CR onto ever greater planes.April 20, 2015 12:13 am at 12:13 am #1174262July 26, 2015 2:06 pm at 2:06 pm #1174263
#KTCRIMJuly 26, 2015 10:23 pm at 10:23 pm #1174264sushibagelMember
This is the most boring thread I’ve ever come across.
Can we Come Up With Something Interesting?July 26, 2015 10:59 pm at 10:59 pm #1174265
Firstly, thank you for your kind words. But I think you may have missed the point of this thread
It came to the attention of some posters that the threads ‘trending’ at the time were all concerning similar and inane subjects, see above. This was not meant as a criticism, merely as a rallying point to posters to join together and foster healthy discussion and amusing topics, which had perhaps fallen into obscurity.
I believe this thread continues to be relevant, as evidenced by the fact that there is a slight dearth of entertaining threads currently. For example, not many threads are generating the back and forth that makes the best threads so involving. The hope is that those in agreement will assist the endevour, and by so doing improve the CR experience for us all. If I may be so presumptous, the tone of your thread indicates that at least in part you agree.July 28, 2015 4:05 am at 4:05 am #1174266mw13Participant
Well, I think I’ve put in a decent days work:
Also, check out http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/why-do-women-like-flowers#post-576964 and all of the relevant responses; best fireworks I’ve seen since July 4th.
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