September 25, 2011 7:32 pm at 7:32 pm #599611Rav TuvParticipant
YWN has an article about kvitlach being removed from the Kosel prior to Rosh Hashana. Where did this concept of kvitlach come from? It seems silly. We are supposed to daven. Or are kvitlach a legit form of communicating w/ the Borei Olam?September 25, 2011 7:46 pm at 7:46 pm #1017183
not only that but it could be a problem in halachah.September 25, 2011 10:16 pm at 10:16 pm #1017184
Toi: It’s not a problem. All of the issues of M’ilah and Bi’ah B’tumah assume that the Kosel is the wall of the Beis Hamikdash and not Har Habayis. Unless you want to call it Kishuf or something like that there should be no issue at all.September 25, 2011 11:49 pm at 11:49 pm #1017185
It is brought down in Sefer Taamei Minhagim(pg 270 asterisk)and brings a story of the Ohr Hachaim who wrote one for someone who needed a yeshua to put it in the Kotel.
Toi: Not sure if it is the kvitlach or the removal that you are referring to, but they bury the papers in har hazaeisim.September 26, 2011 3:08 am at 3:08 am #1017186
Sam2: It is the opposite,Rav Chaim says since it is the wall of Har Habayis it is mutar to touch it.(Shailos Rav)September 26, 2011 3:12 am at 3:12 am #1017187PeacemakerMember
There are shittos that it is assur to go to the Kosel. Satmar is one and Brisk (?) may be another.September 26, 2011 3:42 am at 3:42 am #1017188
Sam4: I think you misunderstood what I wrote.
PM: Those Shittos (Satmar and Toldos Aharon) are for separate, non-Halachic reasons. And many of the Brisker Chumros pertaining to the Kotel are based on the aforementioned mistaken assumption that it was a wall of the Beis Hamikdash.September 26, 2011 3:47 am at 3:47 am #1017189
Sam2:I am sorry,thanks for the explanation.September 26, 2011 4:12 am at 4:12 am #1017190
Sam4: No need to apologize. I reread it and realize it can be ambiguous. I will restate it. The only issues come up if it was a wall of the Beis Hamikdash. This was an assumption for many years (in fact, many storybooks and every Chabad camp I have ever heard of still say it is) which is just plain not true. The Kotel is one of the retaining walls of Har Habayis. There is a discussion in the Poskim that that may have certain Kedushos as well, but Lema’aseh almost all of the Poskim say there are no issues whatsoever.September 26, 2011 4:14 am at 4:14 am #1017191PeacemakerMember
Sam2: What are the non halachic concerns of those that you referenced (S & TA)?
And who are the few poskim that do have halachic issues regarding kedushos of the retaining wall – and what are they?September 26, 2011 4:38 am at 4:38 am #1017192
PM: The non-Halachic concerns will probably get modded. We’ll leave it at calling them political.
And I don’t know of any Poskim who still hold of issues by the wall. The issues can possibly exist depending on how you read combine certain Sugyos. The Avnei Nezer has a T’shuvah explaining what the possible issues could be and why he thinks they are no problem at all. And I have no recollection whatsoever as to where that T’shuvah is, sorry.September 26, 2011 7:17 pm at 7:17 pm #1017193
sam2- i know that. i was refering to puttingyour finger in the crack between the stones of the kosel. if har habayis is from there on in then it would lichoirah be ossur. thats the svarah why not. i didnt say touching. the OP was refering to putting in a kvittel which could have the problem i said above.September 26, 2011 8:11 pm at 8:11 pm #1017194makMember
The Aderet, R’ Yehoshua Lieb Diskin, the Chazon Ish, and the Stiepler were amoung thoswho held it is assur to stick your fingers in the cracks of the kosel. Some of them also held you should not go close to the kosel.September 26, 2011 11:01 pm at 11:01 pm #1017195
Toi: The Avnei Nezer brings down that even if you say that Biah B’miktzas is Assur and even if the thickness of the wall counts as Biah then there is still no reason to say it unless you get to the halfway point of the wall. Also, this is only an issue if someone is a Zav/Metzora/Ba’al Keri. A T’mei Meis is allowed on Har Habayis.
Mak: Anyone who says not to get close to the Kotel is using the false assumption that the Kotel was a wall of the Beis Hamikdash.September 27, 2011 11:20 am at 11:20 am #1017196
sam2- i cant remember where i saw it or a reliable source but i dont do these things for no reason. sorry i cant help more now. wheres the tshuva?September 27, 2011 1:44 pm at 1:44 pm #1017197
Toi: In the Avnei Nezer somehwere. Ummm, more than that I’ll probably not know until after Rosh Hashana. The Avnei Nezer is what I read in bed before I fell asleep a few years back so where stuff is in there is pretty jumbled in my mind. I’ll look.May 28, 2014 1:17 pm at 1:17 pm #1017198147Participant
I sincerely wish each & everyone a Yom Yerusholayim Sameach.
Wow:- 47 years and going, and IY’H by 48 years, LeShono haBo’oh biYerusholayim haBenuyoh!!May 28, 2014 3:31 pm at 3:31 pm #1017199oomisParticipant
Yom Yerushalayim Sameach! May we spend the next one at the Beis Hamikdash.
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