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I received an invitation to a grandchilds Siddur play, which regrettably i cannot attend. I was stunned to see that the school planned it in the middle of the work day. In this economy it is so hard for people to take off, and if you are an hourly worker or part timer as many mothers are, you might not even get paid. (forget about most full time working fathers)Most parents need a dual income specifically for yeshiva tuition. A yeshiva would never hold a fundraiser (auction or tea) and expect parents to come other then on a Sunday or evening if they wanted any sort of attendance. I do not understand their lack of seichel and Menchlichkiet that they cannot do this very important event on a Sunday. Even if you would get paid, face time is so important these days in the workplace. I cannot believe a Yeshiva is so insensitive.
maybe they figure you want sunday to spend out with your kids/grandkids. or that 6 years olds have an early bedtime.
I received an invitation to a grandchilds Siddur play
First of all, mazel tov! May he/she continue to grow in avodas Hashem.
I think you’re being too harsh when you call this a lack of mentchlichkeit. Not everyone considers attendance at a siddur play as important as you do. Your difference of opinion with the school is probably in this regard, not that they think you should take off from work in order to attend.
You can certainly call the school and share your concerns, and if enough parents and grandparents do so, they might reconsider.
They usually do try their best to accomodate everybody. There was probably a good reason and don’t take it so hard. Send your grandson a card in the mail – he will be thrilled. These are really not earth shattering issues.
While the timing of the event might not be a proper time (for you), I completely disagree with the notion that it is a lack of menchlichkeit & a lack of seichel on the school’s part. Maybe the school actually used some thought and that was the best time to make it. I would even say to not be so selfish that since its not going to work for you, that you just blame the school for its lack of menchlichkeit and seichel. Why not just call the school/teacher and see why the event is held when it is before jumping to a conclusion like the above. Nowadays, it almost seems easier to just go on a website and complain about something without even taking the time to see what the full story is.
Should we say mothers of kids are lacking seichel as well when they make a party in school for their kids and the fathers can’t come because they are working during the day? Or maybe its a lack when the school makes shacris for the kids at 7:30 when its better for me (as a father) at 7:15 so I can daven with my child.
Also, is it not worth a few unpaid hours to all mothers (and grandmothers) to see some nachas of your kids (gandkids).
Don’t cry wolf
Actually I dont disagree with the Adminstration.
Lets say they had the event on a Sunday, they would either have to pay all the teachers, Janitors and more who would have to work (You dont expect them to work for free)
And now imagine there are 25 kids in a class, Maybe 1 parent would come during the week, but on a Sunday Both parents and 4 grandparents (Maybe Great-Grandparents-Siblings etc) would come per kid, it would be a logistical nightmare
This is a serious problem. I thik that we should move all siddur and chumash parties, as well as nursery and kindergarten graduations, to 8:30 PM. That way all of our 4 and 5 year olds will learn the virtues of late night study.
We should train them at a very young age to not go to sleep on time. That way, by the time they get to yeshiva gedola, they will be ready to stay up learning till the wee hours of the morning, and then sleep through shacharis and half of morning seder. Perhaps we should provide them with cigarettes and beer. That will make them truly prepared for the full late Thursday night experience.
way to blow something out of proportion…
Among all the mentchlichkeit issues I’ve heard about school administrators, this one is the least of my concerns.
You can shlep all the nachas you want out of your einiklach the next time you visit them. This should be your (as well as the administrators) biggest problem.
I thik that we should move all siddur and chumash parties, as well as nursery and kindergarten graduations, to 8:30 PM.
To be fair, the OP also suggested Sunday.
to abcd2
you are being too critical! This is life ! If your children were living overseas would you consider traveling for such occassion?
Bli ayin hora with our grandchildren not being in the same town it is normal that we can’t attend every function and the children are understanding about it. We try to provide in any way possible to make their life easier and making a fuss about this does not fall into the category. While our children were growing up, my husband did a route for a food company and could never attend a Chumash seuda. Even when we asked that it be moved from let’s say 11:00 A.M. to 12:30 on the same day it was not possible. B”H the children understood that there were good intentions and we have lots of nachas from them! So change your attitude and focus what you can do, not what you can’t. Remember the schedule that may be good for you may not for another grandparent. B”H your grandchild has parent(s), your children, who can attend.
I think it is important for your kids to see that you are willing to inconvenience yourself and take off from your job for them. I think they should b’davka schedule things during the day to make sure that you have to take off from work.
remember teachers get out early on fridays have off all chol hamoed and erev yom tov with out issue
I think you are taking teachers for granted.
All of the siddur parties and Chumush parties from my children and grandchildren, with the exeption of one on a Sunday, were weekdays during school hours. And my experience is with at least a dozen different yeshivos. I’m sure the administration and the children realize that many can’t take off work to attend.
abcd2,
Your lack of consideration for teachers’ much needed and deserved Sundays off is inconsistent with your obvious respect for them.
Sunday is better? I cannot come. I teach 6 days a week, 2 nights, tutor privately 2-3 hours a day to help pay bills, teach in camps n the summer (soooooo hard!!),spend a few hours a week talking with former Talmidim ho need assistance. I guess I should ask my childrens teachers to make it on Erev Shabbos in the afternoon or Chol Hamoed……
As far as teachers, their hours, and the fact that they get off chol hamoed, etc., please let me clarify something for all those who feel that teachers get off easy.
First of all, a teacher who finishes the day at 4-4:30 has at least the same workday as any 9-5 job – as teachers start their days sometime between 7:45-8:30am.
Secondly, when a teacher finishes at 4 or 4:30, his or her day is far from over. They do not leave their work at the office. There are tests to grade, papers to mark, homework to check, lessons to prepare, parents to call…
With all this in mind – including the lower salary range and, in many cases, the late paychecks – I don’t think it’s fair to speak as though teachers have the easy life because they get off Yom Tov and chol hamoed, or even summer vacation. Teaching requires an emotional investment and energy that does not exist in other professions. If we want them to be able to recoup their energy and have koach for our kids, these vacations are not too much to ask.
And, no I am not a teacher. I am just a parent who appreciates what they do.
abcd2 – I’m with you, although I don’t think that the issue stems from a lack of mentchlichkeit as much as a lack of wanting to deal with this new reality of working parents and grandparents.
I am a teacher who is required, several times a year, to be present for Sunday or evening parent – teacher conferences. Why are the conferences more important than a Siddur or Chumash party?
School is for the benefit of the student, not the parent or grandparent.
So you didn’t make it to the siddur party to see einikle sing modeh ani or dress like a tree. Life goes on.
I had a similar issue/problem. I inquired, and there was a very good reason why they did what they did, which I agreed with (and was unable to attend the party). Did you ask the Yeshiva why the party is on a weekday?
“Did you ask the Yeshiva why the party is on a weekday?”
This isnt rocket science. These children dont have school on the weekend.
APY: Normally, the party would have been on Sunday (in my case, as was in previous years), but they moved it to a weekday.
I also experienced a lack of mentchlichkeit in the Yeshiva administration. They ask for tuition money. A lot. How rude!!
In my sons’ cheder, there was no one invited to the siddur party. As a matter of fact, they took them to the kosel. The chumash party was arranged for at around 5:00 in the afternoon, which is when most people would be able to take off a little time to be able to attend if they want to come for the very start or come a little late if they can’t take off time. I think it worked for most people.
Just do away with all school parties. Come up with another way to make the receipt of a siddur (chumash, mishnayos, gemara) important in the eyes of the students. Perhaps have a local Rav come in and talk about the chashivus of tefilla, on their level of course.
Are they your partner or your shaliach?
Or is it, for parties, they are your partner, but for teaching, they are your shaliach?
abcd2: On of the perks of being a Rebbe is that you don’t work certain times (such as the summer). In all fairness, they do get paid less because of it.
abcd2
1-If I have school on Sunday I cannot go to My bio childs play on Sunday. I muct be in my own class
2- A therapist earns 100+G a year, A Rebbi less than half
3- A therapist can add or subtract hours, a Rebbi cannot
4- there are no medical benefits or pensions so a Rebbi must work extra just to make ends come close
5- A therapist gets paid for every outside lecture, speech, workshop. A Rebbi is expected to speak at simchos, give shiurim in shule, speak at various learning programs and other venues and is expected to fill the Chazal of just like I taught for free you should too. And I will. I feel it is a calling….. a mission But you should not take advantage of my calling.
5- I am not complaining. I would not change professions for any offer.
The invitation was meant as a courtesy not a chiyuv. If you can’t make it, don’t take it so hard. I have foregone several grand children’s school events because it was not convenient for me to attend and I didn’t get all upset about it. Send your grandchild a mazal tov card or something.
Rabbaim, I saw your posts and I have a question. You said that in addition to your main position that is 6 days a week and two nights, you also tutor 2-3 hours per day and work in the summer. In your next post you said that a Rebbi clears less than half of the 100G a therapist can earn. Is that really apples-to-apples though? Sach hakol, the teaching plus the tutoring plus the summer job must come to more than 50G. If not, I am shocked beyond words.
If you,meant to say that just the teaching pays that amount, then I don’t think the comparison is fair. Would you agree? The person earning 100G does not have time for 2-3 hours of tutoring and a summer job on top of their main job! Also, therapists who get paid by the hour at such high rates like consultants usually don’t have benefits or pensions on top of that. The benefits are “built in” to the hourly rate.
ABCD. You opened by complaining about a grandchilds siddur play. If you cant make it, you cant make it. It is hard enough to accommodate all class parents, now you expect them to check with all grandparents too? If they did that, they will never hold a play. All they can do is give some advance notice and hope people can make the appropriate arrangements. If you miss it, you miss it. Its not the end of the world for you, your children or your grandchildren. Of course I can understand the pressure to attend if the other bubby or zeidy was there and you are not……but, that is not the schools problem.
why even does this thread even have so many posts even
Squeak. Thanks for reading. its always nice to know someone out there cares.
Rebbis salary is about 50, take off 11G for health (Gruss foundation pays 8 for us)
take off 1g for 1 mil term life (chiyuv!! wish I could do more)
take off 22 G for tuition. yes Rebbi rate is about 75% of full tuition and I don’t have 8 kids in school
take off 19 G a year for mortgage, 5 G for utilities and of course I need to work nights and summers. food an clothing, car and ins. etc….
But I also need to be “involved and immersed in learning” otherwise I cannot be a good in class Rebbi or out of class example. It is tough to balance finances, and own family needs. I enjoy every waking and sleeping moment (the 4 hours I actually get each night) and I would not trade it for any other job. but in this world the financial pix is hard, we are deep in debt that one day, hopefully can be covered by the sale of my house, and I still would pick this over anything.
At the same time, I wonder what would be if indeed we were paid a living wage commensurate with our training and the hours per day and days per week.What wopuld be if I didn’;t have to be calling gmachs each month to cover for another delayed paycheck. What would be if living frugally with no vacations, I was able to match expenses to income. I would imagine I could be a better, more patient, better prepared Rebbi. I imagine I would learn more and know more and give over more to our children. I imagine I would have the koach to invite Talmidim for Shabbos and Motazai Shabbos programs more regularly. I imagine there would be less stress to deal with at home and therefore more yisuv hadaas in all areas of life. I could even dream about “learning in a kollel” for the summer since the 70 days of summer are really all my Sundays and holidays of the year piled up minus Chol Hamoed, plus normal vacation allowance. How special that would be for me and for all who look to mechanchim to teach, lecture, consult and inspire.
I will dream on. Happily.
One final feeliong. Don’t reject my daughter in shiduchim because she comes form a home with no extra resources.
One final feeling. Don’t reject my daughter in shiduchim because she comes form a home with no extra resources.
May the Ribbono Shel Olam deal with you Shelo K’derech Teva and give you this Neis.
May the Ribbono Shel Olam deal with you Shelo K’derech Teva and give you this Neis. “
Amein to that. Nice bracha, Gavra. Ditto from me.
I am looking at this discussion from many different sides: morah, mother, bubby, and wife of a principal. Any morah/rebbe who invests as much time and effort to get first graders to be “performance- ready” certainly wants there to be a crowd. Bubbys and Zaidys who live locally and are already part of the daily lives of the eineklach certainly want to share such a milestone. And yet, the administration needs to grapple with asking teachers to give up more of their personal time… which would not have them win any popularity contests.
It is a difficult call – but abcd2, I certainly appreciate your speaking up, on behalf of dedicated Bubbies everywhere. Maybe someone can figure out some p’shara that would work for more people.
I was also a working parent, and while I appreciate all of the considerations in scheduling a school event, there are times when the school could be a little more, well, considerate. There are civil holidays that fall during the week, and the schools could take better advantage. I remember one elementary class play that took place on President’s Day – the room was packed, with fathers as well as mothers. It was very frustrating to see a school event scheduled within a few days of a civil holiday, when it would take very little thought to use the day so that more parents could attend. It means a lot to a parent to be able to participate, and the handful of times that the school calendar made it possible really stand out in my memory.
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