Ladies First part 2

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  • September 30, 2016 6:12 am at 6:12 am #618461
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    So I’ve been putting in an extra effort lately to try not to walk in front of men thanks to the recent “hearos” in the CR (thanks, Joseph). So the other day, when I saw my bus pulling up to the bus stop, I started to rush over, but then I noticed a man rushing to the bus, so I moved to the side so he could go ahead. However, when I got to the bus stop, I saw, that as a result of my moving to the side, he was now standing right behind a lady wearing short sleeves. I thought he looked uncomfortable, so I felt bad that I had inadvertently put him in this situation, but I didn’t see what I could do about it.

    He then looked around and noticed me and asked me if I was waiting for the bus. When I said yes, he motioned for me to go ahead of him.

    So, the sheilah is, “If by moving to the side, I will end up causing someone to stand behind someone who is dressed less tzniusly than I am, is it better to go ahead or not?” In this case, I couldn’t have done anything about it, because from the place where I was initially, I could not have seen the other girl. Also, the man was older than me, so I had two reasons to let him go ahead.

    September 30, 2016 11:53 am at 11:53 am #1186819
    Joseph
    Participant

    lilmod, now we’re at least asking the right shailos. 🙂

    Everyone, see. All the naysayers are proven wrong. The OP is proof that my teachings in the CR are very much influential and having an impact on people in real life!

    September 30, 2016 3:52 pm at 3:52 pm #1186820
    a talmud haborei
    Participant

    I may not have Joseph’s wisdom, but I can attempt an answer:

    There is really no correct answer, as it all depends on the circumstances. You clearly made the right decision given the information you had. If you would know ahead of time that the man would be forced to stand behind a scantily clad individual, then it would obviously be better for you to be the person standing ahead of him.

    Whether or not he has “hearos” after that is completely his responsibility.

    September 30, 2016 4:35 pm at 4:35 pm #1186821
    Joseph
    Participant

    Is Syag gonna be upset with me for being braggadocious?

    September 30, 2016 4:46 pm at 4:46 pm #1186822
    apushatayid
    Participant

    You didnt put him in any situation. He could avoid taking the bus altogether, or, he could refrain from rushing and wait on the side until everyone else got on, or, he could keep tabs on his surrounding and wait for the next bus. he knew the risks of meeting up with improperly dressed women when he left the house in the morning, stop blaming yourself for an uncomfortable situation a man found himself in.

    October 4, 2016 11:11 pm at 11:11 pm #1186823
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Joseph – lol.

    APY- Thanks for your wise words, but I didn’t mean for my post to be taken that seriously. I really just thought that it was really funny that here I was going out of my way to be extra (I know according to Joseph it’s not extra, but to me it seems that way whether or not it really is) tznius, and this was the result!

    My main reason for sharing the story with the Coffee Room was because I thought it was funny. However, I was a bit serious in the sense that it did give me food for thought in the sense that I do think that people should try (to the extent possible and practical) to think of all of the ramifications of their actions. A certain practice might be a Mitzvah in general, but in a particular situation, it might not be. If a person really wants to be an Oved Hashem, he has to really try to think about each action and all its ramifications.

    October 14, 2016 1:37 am at 1:37 am #1186824
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Joseph: “Everyone, see. All the naysayers are proven wrong. The OP is proof that my teachings in the CR are very much influential and having an impact on people in real life!”

    Joseph, I don’t think that the “naysayers” think you are not influential. I think that you don’t realize how influential you can be, and therefore you aren’t as careful as you could be regarding how you phrase things. I think that if you realized that people might actually take the things you write seriously, you would be more careful how you phrase things. Most of the things that you write are 100% true, but you write them in a way that they can be taken very out of context and give a very negative and incorrect view of Chareidi hashkafa or Torah hashkafa and cause people to be turned off from Chareidiism or Judaism.

    As you can see from the OP, your teachings are very influential ( much more than you realize), so try to be more careful about how you phrase things. Before you “send a post” try to think about how the reader will understand what you wrote. Language (whether oral or written) is not an exact science; it’s not about the words themselves or what the speaker/writer had in mind – it’s about what the reader/listener will hear.

    Usually, the one who is speaking or writing something has something very different in mind than what their words convey to the one listening. It is the writer/speaker’s obligation to try to figure out how the reader/hearer will hear his words. We speak differently to a child than to an adult, and we speak differently to someone who has a different level of knowledge or is coming from a different background. We always have to keep in mind what the reader/listener is thinking.

    I think you might be a bit naive.

    October 14, 2016 2:46 am at 2:46 am #1186825
    Joseph
    Participant

    Lilmod, knowing the recent topic that prompted your above comment, I must say that in my opinion our disagreement lies in the underlying application of halacha and not in the expression of it. On that topic.

    October 14, 2016 2:48 am at 2:48 am #1186826
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    “I think you might be a bit naive.”

    I try my best 🙂

    October 14, 2016 3:26 am at 3:26 am #1186827
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Joseph – I actually was going to write this even before the recent topic.

    In any case, are you saying that you really think that someone who is emotionally abused by her husband should not get divorced and that her husband should be encouraged not to give her a get? Because that is what your words implied, that is what I (and Gofish) were upset about, and that is what I am trying to be dan l’kaf zchus that you didn’t mean.

    October 14, 2016 4:07 am at 4:07 am #1186828
    Joseph
    Participant

    Lilmod, please read the teshuva of Rav Elyashiv on this topic that I just linked to in that thread to understand the halachic answer to your question.

    October 14, 2016 10:03 am at 10:03 am #1186829
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Joseph – read my response in the other thread.

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