June 14, 2015 10:29 pm at 10:29 pm #615834
I’ve been reading that the State appointed school board monitor has, since his appointment, been taking away services from Yeshiva students. Can anyone shed any light on what the State monitor has been doing, vetoing and which services he’s been taking away from Yeshiva pupils?
Also, what’s the story with the school board in the Five Towns? A few years ago it had been contentious down there between the private schools body majority and the public schools body minority.July 15, 2015 10:10 pm at 10:10 pm #1094396
There is no school monitor presently in either East Ramapo or Lawrence as of now. In Lakewood there is one and he is trying to cut school busing for 4-12 graders who live within 2.5 miles of the school but this will apply to both private and public school students. Gov. Christie is running for president and there will be a debate next month.If you do’t want it to come to NY you should try to fight it in NJ as they are using it as the basis for having it in NY. If you can publicize the fact that Christie’s idea of “NO STUDENT LEFT BEHIND” is to deny students school bus rides so they can’t get to school to get left behind. Or if they do walk 2.5 miles they are going to be so tried they will be sleeping in class and not learning. Or does he really think students are going to walk 2.5 miles each day for 8 years just to graduate he is sadly mistaken. All that will happen is the drop out rate will start in primary instead of high school Just posting on various websites maybe enough to convince him to tell his monitor to leave busing alone.July 15, 2015 10:21 pm at 10:21 pm #1094397
Abba_S: Is the Lakewood monitor attempting to implement any additional negative proposals other than reducing the busing you mentioned?
What is the likelihood of him succeeding in reducing the busing?
What have the high school students within 2.5 miles been doing until now to get to school?July 15, 2015 11:30 pm at 11:30 pm #1094398
Joseph, where did you read about the non-existant monitor taking away services? What I had read about the Lakewood situation was that because the yeshivas were on varying schedules, requiring multiple trips to the same schools, it was becoming too expensive.
Abba s. Yeshiva students are going to drop out because of the two and a half miles?July 15, 2015 11:34 pm at 11:34 pm #1094399
lesschumras: I simply replied to the facts Abba_S presented about the monitor attempting to eliminate bus service to students living within 2.5 miles of the school.July 16, 2015 5:16 pm at 5:16 pm #1094401
Joseph: 1) The only services the Frum community gets are busing & Special Ed. Federal law requires the Board to pay legal cost if the parents win a special ed case which will cost thousands of dollars. Although he can still raise property taxes for all.
2)The Monitor can over ride the school board so what ever he says goes.
3) Up until know all students in the district got free bus service no matter how far they lived from the school. September is when this may take effect.
Lesschumrus: I never said that yeshiva students will drop out of school. All that will happen is that the 8,000 yeshiva student Approx 30% live within 2.5 miles of the school will have to be driven to school resulting in traffic jam and pollution. The 4,000 puplic school students approx. 50% live within 2.5 miles of the school who are mostly lower income may have to walk to school they are the ones who will drop out. even if they come they will be so tired they will fall a sleep in class. The reason we have school lunch program is so they will have a full stomache and be able to learn betterJuly 16, 2015 6:02 pm at 6:02 pm #1094402
By the way Public School was spelled in error in the my post .July 16, 2015 6:46 pm at 6:46 pm #1094403
Lesschumrus: I never said that yeshiva students will drop out of school. All that will happen is that the 8,000 yeshiva student Approx 30% live within 2.5 miles of the school will have to be driven to school resulting in traffic jam and pollution. The 4,000 puplic school students approx. 50% live within 2.5 miles of the school who are mostly lower income may have to walk to school they are the ones who will drop out. even if they come they will be so tired they will fall a sleep in class. The reason we have school lunch program is so they will have a full stomache and be able to learn better
1: Lakewood (Boruch Hashem) probably has a decreased property tax base due to the large number of shuls, yeshivos and non for profits in the area, which reduces the funds available to bus Yeshiva students.
2: With the tax base not keeping up with the population explosion (Boruch Hashem), Lakewood should expect to have fewer and fewer non-mandated services without a similar tax hike. There is just no way to pay for busing for the thousands of students, even if they were in public school.
3: Parents could decide to hire a bus service to substitute for non-mandated busing, if they so desire. They either pay for it with tax dollars, carpool gas and time, or hire someone. Either way, there is no free lunch.July 16, 2015 6:46 pm at 6:46 pm #1094404
Abba_S: The monitor can unilaterally raise local property taxes without a referendum where the voters can vote it down?
Is cutting special ed services on the table for the monitor?
Is the monitor planning to cut bus service?
The secular public school parents are not opposed to themselves losing bus service?July 17, 2015 8:45 am at 8:45 am #1094406
The monitor can raise tax rates by 2% together with the assestment, taxes can go up without the referendum.
Special ed cost about $70, 000 per student per year so it’s possible but the board pays the legal cost for the student which can range from $200 – $1,000 per hour so these cases can cost over $100,000.00 per case they may not want to fight unless they have to.
The monitor is planning to cut bus services as this is the only service where he can effect the frummies. Another solution is to transfer all yeshiva student in the district so they are in schools 2.5 miles from their home then the district MUST pay for busing by law. If the monitor decides to go with co-ed busing the state opens themselves to a discrimination suit and if proven the monitor is gone.
The secular parent just want to stick it to the frummies they don’t realize that all this will do is bankrupt the district. What is needed is for private school students to be counted for funding purposes.July 17, 2015 12:03 pm at 12:03 pm #1094407
Abba_S: If he cuts the 2.5 mile bus service, the public school kids lose that too. Aren’t the public school parents also protesting losing the bus service?
Is he planning to force co-ed bus service? If he is, the girls schools can all start an hour later than the boys school thus forcing the State to provide separate service again.July 17, 2015 9:03 pm at 9:03 pm #1094408
Joseph: Everyone loses the courtesy busing if the monitor decides to go that route. Nobody knows right now neither the private nor public school parents what he will decide it will be a surprise in Sept. when it too late. Then the parent will have to go to court.
The District will have to have contracts with the bus companies and routes set up by Sept. so the decision will have to be made by Aug.at the latest, less than 2 week away. Because the District waited to the last minute to put the busing service out to bidding costs for it will be higher.
Last year some of the yeshivas had a tiered starting time as you suggested but they got nothing in return not even a promise that they would not cut their busing so this year they are not doing it. They will have to go to court and a judge will be deciding if the state, as it the state’s monitor who is doing the cutting, is adequately funding the district for the mandated yeshiva students transportation costs. I also don’t think the state wants to be shown as denying students school busing and denying them a good education so the state will compromise after they are taken to court. The judge can have the state pay the whole district’s education cost as there is suppose to be NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION, since the state monitor overrode the boards budget.July 19, 2015 9:12 am at 9:12 am #1094409
The school bus problem in Lakewood is as follows there is 24,000 yeshiva students who cost the district $20 million but the state only pays for the 8,000 public school student @ 14000.00 per public school student for a total $112 million. Every student living within 2.5 miles from the school is entitled to bus service according to state law.
The monitor in order to cut yeshiva school busing threaten to have co-ed school busing and the yeshivas walked out.
The problem with implementing co-ed yeshiva busing is as follows:
A) The bus routes are design by the schools and each school is only one sex so the district would have take a boys school and a girls school and mix them together. Assuming 50 kids to a bus that’s 480 bus routes that he has to do by Aug or at least Sept..
B) Unless most of the buses are half empty he is not going to get much saving.
C) Even if there is savings by combining students from more then one school why not combine students of two schools of the same sex.
D) If he goes through with his threat of co-ed busing. He will have to pay $20 million for busing that nobody will use while at the same time explaining to a judge why the state IS NOT VIOLATING THE YESHIVA STUDENT CIVIL RIGHTS. Also if the district does not provide busing they are suppose to pay $884.00 per student for the 2015-2016 school year for 24,000 all yeshiva student that comes to $ 21,260.00 at 16,000 those who live outside the 2.5 miles it come to $14,144,000.00.
E) On top of the district and or the state being liable for $14 – 21 million dollars the states ability to take over a school district will also be in jeopardy.
The only cut the monitor can take is courtesy busing which will effect about 8,000 yeshiva and 4,000 public school students for a saving of about $6 million this year. The only problems are:
A) How many yeshiva students will transfer to schools 2.5 miles
away and become state mandated?
B) How will the cancellation of courtesy busing effect public school attendance. Each day a student is absence it cost the district $63.63 and so they will have to encourage the students to walk the 2.5 miles in all types of weather.
The only way is to have school bus funding for private schools separate from public school fundingJuly 19, 2015 1:21 pm at 1:21 pm #1094410
The monitor’s plans for September busing is still completely unknown now?July 19, 2015 4:55 pm at 4:55 pm #1094411
Joseph Yes nobody knows his plan but he needs about $6 million. Either he is going to have to cut the public schools budget or cut the courtesy busing or the state can kicks in the money. I don’t think the state is going to give more money. So he either accepts the board’s budget and cuts the public schools budget or cuts busing.
If he cuts the busing he needs to design safe routes for each of the 12,000 children effected. They will be needing school crossing guards to make sure they cross safely, traffic enforcement agents to keep the thousands of additional cars moving and police officers to ensure the students safety from predators. In addition they will need additional traffic and street lights plus sidewalks in some locations. All of this has to be in place by Sept. 2015 the start of the school year. If it’s not in place the yeshiva or public school parents can sue due to unsafe conditions and the district will have to provide busing. All of this is going to cost money maybe more than they save on busing.July 19, 2015 5:54 pm at 5:54 pm #1094412
Abba_s: For your point D, how would it be violating their civil rights?July 19, 2015 8:42 pm at 8:42 pm #1094413
A government agency can not discriminate based on religious believes. Example if an employer previously allowed employees to take off Saturday and then required an employee to work on Saturday and he claimed religious observance and was fired. The employer even if it is not a governmental agency is in violation of the civil rights act and he gets his job backed plus loss pay. Even if the employer never let new employees off on Saturday if they don’t try to accommodate the Sabbath observer they are violating his civil rights. In this case since the monitor could have combined two bus routes with two schools that have the same sex student body and didn’t but used co-ed busing to deny the yeshiva students of bus rides he is in violation of the yeshiva students civil rights. With governmental agencies the bar is higher as to what is considered accommodating. Only a judge can rule if co-ed busing is a civil rights violation. If found guilty of civil rights violations the state and district can lose federal aid besides the states ability to take over and override an elected school board which may also be a voting rights violation which is also a civil right violation. The judge may rule that $884 compensation per student negates the civil rights violation. Similar to a positive command negates a negative command in Jewish law. If one committed a negative command which one could receive lashes if he does the positive command he can be absolved of the negative law lashing.July 20, 2015 1:20 pm at 1:20 pm #1094414
In this case since the monitor could have combined two bus routes with two schools that have the same sex student body and didn’t but used co-ed busing to deny the yeshiva students of bus rides he is in violation of the yeshiva students civil rights.
Actually, that is an assumption that probably won’t be tested, but if it was, it would (IMHO) lose in court.
If you would like, we can discuss it on a different thread.July 20, 2015 1:36 pm at 1:36 pm #1094415
Abba_S: Your example of a worker is highly dependent on the job. The rule is “reasonable accommodation”. So in your case, let’s say someone was working on Sundays, but not on Saturdays, because he’s Shomer Shabbos. Now, the store became a lot busier on Saturdays, and less busy on Sundays, so the owner decides to cut staff on Sundays and increase staff on Saturdays. In such a scenario, the worker wouldn’t have a case, because the business need is to work on Saturday. There isn’t a reasonable accommodation.
In this case, if the money isn’t there, they need to cut services. The religious belief for separate busing isn’t a priority for them – separation of church and state and all that. They can try for a reasonable accommodation, but they still need to work within the budget that they have.July 20, 2015 1:51 pm at 1:51 pm #1094416
You don’t need a legal solution to prevent the BOE from making the buses coed. You can easily have a technical solution by scheduling the boys and girls schools to start the school day half an hour (or however long) apart so that it is impractical to have the boys schools students picked up at the same time as the girls schools students.July 20, 2015 2:23 pm at 2:23 pm #1094417
Abba, there is no requirement to provide be der segregated transportation. The repeated attempts at segregation on the public bus routes between Brooklyn, Monsey and Lakewood have been repeatedly shot down in the courts. Districts that don’t provide courtesy bussing have not had to provide the infrastructure you describe.having yeshivas throw tantrums by rescheduling hours just reinforces the decision not to pay for the bussing.in addition, if yeshivas in Lakewood areso packed, exactly where are the students supposed to transfer to?July 20, 2015 10:06 pm at 10:06 pm #1094418
You are correct in that once the buses are integrated with men and women and public funds are used, they can’t be segregated But since yeshivas are single sexed they have been allowed to have all of their students on separate buses this has already been litigated. If they proof the monitor is only doing co-ed busing to deny them the mandated busing and not to save money there is a civil rights violation. Once there is a court case the state has to explain why the state took over the elected school board ( overrode the school board ) and how and when they are going to return it back to the elected board
All students must be treated equal so you are going to have students from two public schools also sharing the same bus. Students will sleep on the bus and get off at the wrong school. Whose responsibility is it to transfer him back to the right school.
Gov. Christie is running for President so I really don’t think he want to be know as the man who is deny school buses to 25,000 children. The yeshiva have already told there parents not to car pool. That means 5,000 to 15,000 additional cars during rush hour. Not for one day but for the whole school year. This will result in massive traffic jam and many student will not get to school until 10 o;clock or even later. Emergency vehicles wouldn’t be able to get through there will be chaos. Some body will step forward and make a deal, the state will pay the $884 per student directly to the yeshivas for busing and it will be over.
I can’t see the monitor or any one else in the district as staff has been cut to the bone, rearranging bus routes for 30,000 pupil by Sept. 2015 so that there might not be be co-ed busing.July 20, 2015 11:26 pm at 11:26 pm #1094419ujewParticipant
You can easily have a technical solution by scheduling the boys and girls schools to start the school day half an hour (or however long) apart so that it is impractical to have the boys schools students picked up at the same time as the girls schools students.
It seems that it doesn’t work that way. The monitor can say what times busing will be provided and the schools will have to work around that. (Watch the youtube video titled “BOE State Monitor Announces Coed Busing for 2015 2016” )July 21, 2015 12:34 am at 12:34 am #1094420
ujew: That isn’t correct. The New Jersey law (passed in 1927 therearound) mandating school busing for private school children allows private schools the prerogative of deciding their own starting and ending hours.
The Lakewood yeshivas two months ago tentatively agreed to tier their hours, so that some yeshivas started 8:45, others at 9:15, etc., so that the BOE could reduce the number of buses needed and thus their transportation costs would be saving millions of dollars a year. (The same bus could do another round for a second yeshiva after dropping off the children at the first yeshiva.) The yeshivas understood the State would, in return for them voluntarily tiering their hours, continue providing courtesy busing (i.e. busing for children living close to the school.) As it turned out the government in the end did not agree to continue the courtesy busing. So a couple of weeks ago the yeshivas announced their tentative deal to tier their hours was off and all the schools would again be starting at 9:00 AM next year. (All this information I researched over the last couple of days.)
If the school monitor/board had the right to impose hours on the private schools, they could have just told the schools they have to start when they tell them to. But they can’t do that under the law.July 21, 2015 1:15 am at 1:15 am #1094421
Abba, intentionally escalating the cost by rescheduling discharge times would only make it more certain that the bussing will end. The monitor would argue that gender segregation was not a religious requirement as the parents no doubt take busses, trains and planes that are not segregated. Your scare tactic scenarios are far fetched.July 21, 2015 9:20 am at 9:20 am #1094422
A state Audit of the Lakewood School board revealed that in 2012-2013 their was 4902 students. In a foot note it said school real estate taxes increased 9% in 2014. The current budget that the monitor accepted over the boards rejection is for $ 151 million
That comes out to $30,250 per student. If you want to save money school vouchers is the way to go. The median tuition in Lakewood is $4,000.00.
As to scare tactics during the past week the yeshivas urged parent not to use the school buses or car pool for summer camp and the delay was only 15-30 minutes . It was reported in the Asbury Press
you can check it out.
This will all be over in a month either they will integrate school busing and there will be traffic jams. How big I do not know but in theory it can ripple throughout the state.
Also integrated school buses ( Public & Private student will be intermingled) will not be limited to Lakewood but all over including here in NY.July 21, 2015 10:12 am at 10:12 am #1094423
Abba, my school district provides free bus service to any school within 20 miles of the district. Genders are mixed and, if necessary, schools are combined on the same van without any difficulties.July 22, 2015 2:32 am at 2:32 am #1094424
If you watch the Lakewood BOE State Monitor video, the co-ed busing is not school busing, it’s commuter busing. Basically the bus will be running down centrally located avenues, picking up “people” and dropping them off at schools. It will be one trip there and one trip back. The bus driver will not wait. If a student is running late he/she will miss the only bus to or from the school.
This is a new concept and will not work.
A) Will the bus driver be able to verify the students? Anybody can wait at these bus stops and get on the buses. They can’t verify that they are picking up mandated students. Example: A student who lives within the 2 miles walks a block or two to the bus stop and takes the bus reserved for mandated students.
B) By having the bus stop away from the house it just makes it easier for some of the students to be abused or victimized. You are going to have high school students and first graders on the same bus, it a recipe for disaster.
C) Many students will miss the bus. These students will not attend school that day and will cost the district $151.25 per student per day. If they are absent (unexplained) more than ten days they may have to repeat the school year. Which in turn will result in a higher dropout rate. This is besides the courtesy bus student that will be dropping out.
D) What happens if a student doesn’t get off at his/her school or misses the bus on the way back, whose responsibility is it to get the student to the right school or home?
The way I see it, the district can either provide school busing which is door to door, or the state pays $884 per student to either the parent or the provider for school transportation.July 22, 2015 3:44 am at 3:44 am #1094425Burnt SteakParticipant
I think this is getting a bit out of hand. Many communities do not have busing or anything like this. Busing is a luxury and there are many ways around it. Biking, Carpool, Walking ect…
Also these communities have many schools so the distance for the average kid should not be far.
Kids won’t miss school if they can’t have access to a bus. Many of those kids will just have to walk. Shouldn’t the parents take some responsibility in their children’s education. Maybe set up a system where people learning in kollel take their kids to school after scharis. Might have to talk to a gadol about that, but it would teach the kids how important school is for them.July 22, 2015 9:05 am at 9:05 am #1094427
School busing for private students in NJ has been a right since 1927. This right is not in every state for example Maryland citizens do not have this right. It is no different than the right say, to be able to walk down the street without being searched.
In NYC the police had a policy called stop and frisk, in order to get guns off the streets, people were asked if they are carrying a gun and many times frisked. The police maintained records of this and apologized if nothing was found. The fear of being caught with a gun was enough to keep the guns off the street and preventing thousands of crimes. Since this was done in high crime areas blacks were more likely to be searched. In fact, it was proven that hundreds of thousands of blacks were stopped unnecessarily each year and a court ruled it was a civil rights violation.
The question is not, will Yeshiva students come to school? The question is will the low income public school students drop out?
It is the public school student’s attendance that determines school funding a 10% drop in attendance = a loss of $15.1 million per year. Last year the district owed the state $1.5 most likely due to attendance.
As far as getting any additional funding, last years they got a 9% increase via property tax referendum not going to happen. Also the United States was founded under the concept of no taxation without representation. Since the State overrode the elected school board the property owners should not have to pay that portion of Property Taxes. This will require a court case. But if a case can be made that the state took over the district just to deny yeshiva student from getting mandated benefits they will win and get a reduction in taxes. The State will have to either increase its contribution or the district will have to cut expenses drastically. Also the ability for the state to take over a school district maybe limited. Once the school board is in charge of this district I think many of the school administrators will be looking for a new job.July 22, 2015 2:58 pm at 2:58 pm #1094428
Abba, the “State” was also elected by voters. I’m curious, other than this issue, in what other ways do you manifest your deep concern for the welfare of the public school children?July 22, 2015 3:01 pm at 3:01 pm #1094429
in what other ways do you manifest your deep concern for the welfare of the public school children?
He pays thousands of dollars a year for the education of public school students.July 22, 2015 10:35 pm at 10:35 pm #1094430
Lesschumras: The “State” was also elected by voters.
The State was not elected by the voters, only the governor and the legislators were, all the rest are bureaucrats. In our system of checks and balances, only the judiciary can override an elected body. The executive can veto legislation but cannot change it. In this case the school monitor is a bureaucrat and is doing the overriding.
Now if the state of NJ would exempt the Lakewood residents from paying taxes, both real estate tax and income tax, it would be fine. I would say the state monitor can do whatever he wants, as there is no taxation without representation.
The problem is, if we don’t stop it in Lakewood the same thing will happen in NY. Just this year in NYS a similar school monitoring law passed the assembly but the Senate wouldn’t take it up, so it died. But they will try again next session.July 23, 2015 2:27 am at 2:27 am #1094431
All students living within 2.5 miles of the school will be denied access to school busing as per school monitor.I know you think low income students are going to walk up to 2.5 miles in rain , snow and boiling hot temperatures just to go to school. The problem is, it’s not the yeshiva students who won’t go to school, rather it’s the public school students who are lower income, and even with busing, they are more likely than higher income students to drop out of school.
Yeshiva Parents will drive their children to school but putting another 5 to 15 thousand cars on Lakewood streets will create traffic jams. Which may prevent emergency vehicles from getting from one part of Lakewood to the other. People living near the yeshivas will be unable to get in or out of their driveways, because parents will be double parked for blocks around the yeshivas in the morning, waiting to drop off their children, and in the afternoon, when they are picking them up, as the school parking lot wasn’t designed for this volume. This will lower property values and many of these home owners who are not orthodox will sell their houses. This will result in lower property values, lower property taxes and fewer students in the public schools. All of this will affect public school funding.
editedJuly 23, 2015 3:48 am at 3:48 am #1094432
The benefit of property values falling is that more frum families will be able to buy homes.July 23, 2015 8:51 am at 8:51 am #1094433
It seem that Gov. Christie visited Lakewood and visit the Kotler family, the leading Rabbinic family, who are mourning the loss of their mother, as per photos in Yeshiva World today. Who knows what was said or promised.July 23, 2015 1:29 pm at 1:29 pm #1094434
Abba_S – which all leads to Lakewood being overcrowded. Mazel tov. If you don’t like it, you can create the next Ir HaKodesh.July 23, 2015 1:33 pm at 1:33 pm #1094435☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
The state has to deal with the reality as it is.July 23, 2015 2:36 pm at 2:36 pm #1094436
Abba, on Shabbos, do yeshiva kids ride busses to shul to their friends or do they, heaven forbid, walk? You keep throwing around the 2.5 miles figure. Are you implying that no child lives within 2.5 miles of a school? That they all live exactly 2.5 mes away and this require courtesy bussing?
I don’t have the statistics, but I would venture to say that over half of the public school kids in question live within a mile of a schoolJuly 23, 2015 2:42 pm at 2:42 pm #1094437
gaw: Where should the Jews move to? In Monroe and Bloomingburg they want to stop the Jews from expanding because it is “rural”. In Ramapo and Lakewood those opposed to the Jews expanding say it is “suburban”. Boro Park is urban and like the rest of NYC there’s physically nowhere to build. So the rural don’t want building because they want to stay rural; the suburbans don’t want building because don’t want to become urban; and the urban is saturated.
Or is it that they don’t want the Jews? Or at least those Jews’ Jews who dress and act funny and refuse to integrate into the melting pot.July 23, 2015 6:13 pm at 6:13 pm #1094439
Mods, is there a reason my post wasn’t approved?
the beginning was right on, my guess would be the little extra comment toward the end…July 23, 2015 7:49 pm at 7:49 pm #1094440
Joseph – move to some city where Yidden remain a minority (Houston comes to mind, or any other city. If you want east coast, how about Providence RI), so that we are not “misgoded B’umos”.
Seriously, a big part of the problem is that school taxes are being used to prop both public & private schools, and there just aren’t enough funds to do so (as opposed to the Five Towns, where I imagine taxes are through the roof, so there is more than enough to pay for it all).
The state has to deal with the reality as it is.
The state will protect public schools over private, so there will be a loss of non-mandated busing. That will be the reality, and so what if there is traffic, the Helix will still be worse.July 24, 2015 12:06 am at 12:06 am #1094441
The state monitor is protecting the public schools at the expense of private school students. While his idea of co-ed busing is legal in that private and public school students can be on the same bus. The problem is going to be dismissal time public school end at 3-4 PM while yeshiva end 6-9 PM. Since the monitor can’t provide busing for dismissal of yeshiva students the state is mandated to pay $884 per child per year for their busing This will come to $17,680,000.00 and come out of the $151 million district budget. The private student’s parents or yeshiva may have to sue to collect. If the district loses and can’t pay they either go bankrupt in which case a judge is in charge or the assets (school buildings) are auctioned off for pennies on the dollar or the state pays. If the state pays the $884 will probably go to the yeshivas and once that happens it will continue in the future. As to if it gets deducted from the district budget that is between the state and the district but there should be no complaints about mandatory busing at the school board district level. Also once the state pays the yeshivas voucher will be the next step.
If courtesy busing is eliminated as planned it will effect over 50% of the public school student and can cause at least a drop of 10% in school attendance as students will have to walk to school in bad weather. This will cost the district $15,100,000. The reason for the monitor is to get more resources for the public schools and what he is doing is just the opposite.
The state is only suppose to take over a district, is if there is criminal activity or if they are failing to provide for the students. Here the board is trying to allocate the funds so all student benefit. If the board had the guts to take on the monitor, they could sue him in court and all the legal fees would be paid by the state (taxpayer). Otherwise you need a pro bono lawyer or someones is going to have to pay which is expensive. But once the case is filed people are going to join in as a friend of the court. For example districts that were taken over by the state and want control back, civil rights groups that want to limit bureaucrats’ power, those who want school vouchers and those who want to fight the unions. On the other hand Gov. Christie was in Lakewood and spoke to R’ Kotler the leading rabbinic family in Lakewood NJ who is in mourning for the lose of their mother. So maybe a deal was reached or R’ Kotler didn’t give them permission to sue yet.
editedJuly 24, 2015 1:32 am at 1:32 am #1094442
Jews can live anywhere, this busing problem is going to be everywhere there is a large enough Jewish community. 2016 is an election year the Jewish Orthodox voter have to be united and tell the politician that if you want our vote you have to solve the school busing problem and penalize the taking over of elected school Boards. An example, the taking over of a school board, unless criminal charges are filed against board members, will result in residents of the district being exempt of all property taxes and the state must reimburse the municipalities for the loss of tax revenue.
In addition even if charges are filed a plan to return the district to the newly elected school board’s control within a year must be made. Failure to return power to the newly elected board will exempt resident from not only property tax but a reduction of 5% of their income tax per year. So if his taxes was $100.00 he only owes $95.00 The second year he would owe $90.00. A state Monitor can be in place but if he has veto or overriding power the penalties kick in.
If it’s tucked into a Federal appropriation bill it will pass who would oppose a bill saying that a bureaucrat can override an elected board and the penalty is the residents are exempt from paying property tax. Besides nobody reads the bills anyway.July 24, 2015 12:11 pm at 12:11 pm #1094443
Joseph: My first attempt at this wasn’t approved, so I’m going to try again.
When Jews move to an area, they tend to build larger homes and more of them. This is because we tend to have more children, and our communities also tend to draw other Jews there. While this can have a good effect on residents by causing home values to rise, it also changes the character of a place. What was a quiet town, with ample parking and little traffic, can become a busy area. Many residents don’t want that. They like the quiet, not having to search for parking, and little traffic. When Jews move to an area, things don’t stay like that for long.
Due to private Jewish schools opening, and Jewish residents wanting certain services for their children (special ed, busing, etc.), either the taxes would go up, or the funds available to the public schools would get cut. That’s another thing the non-Jewish residents want to avoid.
So do they not want Jews? Possibly. But it’s not anti-semitism. It’s just that they know what it means to have Jews start living there, and what it would do to the area.July 24, 2015 1:50 pm at 1:50 pm #1094444
DaMoshe: Considering the fact that they do have large families, and the (many) children get married and need homes for their own new (large) families, housing needs to be built. Somewhere. That much is obvious. So if wherever the Jews go the locals wont want them because their families are too big, they grow too fast, and they use too much resources, should the Jews move into the sea?
What you describe is the natural phenomenon of growth that will happen anywhere we live. And Jews need to live near fellow observant Jews for (walking distance) shuls, yeshivos, etc.
As far as public school funding, that is a red herring. The Jews pay property (and other) taxes to pay for public school education. These Jews don’t send their children to public schools. So the PS are coming out way ahead with religious Jews paying for PS but not using the PSs. As far as them getting special ed and busing for their children, they’re entitled to it by law as much as anyone else. Just because they have long peyos or speak yiddish doesn’t disentitle Jewish special ed needing children from obtaining those services. And, remember, the community overall is putting far more money into the public school, without using the schools (other than special ed), than the average non-Jewish families that are sending children to PS and thus getting about a $20,000 per year, per child free PS education. So calling a spade a spade indicates that Jews underutilize and receive less public school benefits, while their net pay into the local public school system is way above average.
If they don’t want Jews because the Jews do things that are uniquely Jewish, that I would call anti-semitism. But even if you are too shy to call it that, call it what you want, but Jewish growth isn’t going to stop because some locals don’t like it.July 24, 2015 2:59 pm at 2:59 pm #1094445
Joseph, the question wasn’t what Jews should or should not be doing. The question was why people are opposed to it, and whether they are opposed to Jews in general. I think I answered that, and your questions/points don’t change that answer.
I’ll still address your points.
Regarding growth: yes, growth is a natural turn of events. The issue is with how it’s done. In many cases, Jews will flood an area, and try to elect their own people into office. They’ll then grant any waivers/variances they may need to build up their area. While legally that may be fine, it doesn’t mean it’s smart. The infrastructure needs to be set up first. Natural growth happens slowly, so the infrastructure can be changed to suit the needs. When Jewish communities are built, very often they bypass this step, and try to play catch-up with the infrastructure. That should be changed.
Regarding school funding and taxes: You’re not necessarily correct. Special ed services in public schools are significantly cheaper than in private schools. There is also the issue of state and federal money which is determined by the number of public school students. Having a large number of students in private schools dilutes that pot of funding, because no extra money is given for them.
In Ramapo public schools, in 2008, the average spending per child was $25,748. By 2012, the number was $27,668. You’d think, great, the number actually went up! Not so fast. Remember to take inflation into account, as well as other factors. The better measure is that in 2008, the number was 53% above the state average of spending per student. In 2012, that had dropped to 32% above average. That’s a very significant decrease.
Again, I’m not saying the growth should stop. I’m just explaining why locals oppose it.July 24, 2015 3:04 pm at 3:04 pm #1094446
As far as public school funding, that is a red herring.
In a majority Yeshivish town (such as Lakewood, or Ramapo), the costs of an exponential birth rate should get paid by higher taxes on owners, whether those children go to public or private school (as there are additional costs such as busing and Special Ed). The problem is that the Jews refuse to pay the taxes needed to support the services that are required by their exponential birth rate (and you see it in Ramapo as well), so services that public school children (usually minorities) are used to having get cut, which is politically unacceptable once you get out of the small daled amos of your little school district. So yes, public school vs. private is a red herring. It is the members of district that is unwilling to pay, and now realizing that they (the majority) may have to lose out on services as well.
If they don’t want Jews because the Jews do things that are uniquely Jewish, that I would call anti-semitism. But even if you are too shy to call it that, call it what you want, but Jewish growth isn’t going to stop because some locals don’t like it.
I believe his point is that they are against large families, not Jews. Is being a member of the “anti-natal society” inherently anti-Semitic? How about if a Jewish retirement community opened up and didn’t allow children (as most don’t). Would they also be “anti-Semitic”?July 24, 2015 3:40 pm at 3:40 pm #1094447
DaMoshe: In Ramapo, Monroe and Lakewood, I know of no case where the infrastructure became insufficient due to the quick growth. The water kept running, the electric kept flowing and the sewers didn’t overflow. Certainly not to any greater extent than many other non-Jewish towns. So while we keep hearing the mantra “the infrastructure won’t be able to keep up” by opponents using that claim for well over 25 years already, the reality is that the infrastructure has kept up – despite the great amount of growth.
The school funding issue you describe is a formula problem. The State formula doesn’t account for private school students to determine funding; it only accounts for public school students to determine funding. The law mandates certain services for all children, public or private. So the problem that needs to be fixed by the legislature is fixing the formula to account for the fact that there are children in private schools.
Regarding your Ramapo example, both in ’08 and ’12, by your own cited figures, they were in both years above State average spending! (Of course the spending growth didn’t keep up; that’s because of the aforementioned formula problem. And a 7.5% increase in four years is not small potatoes in any event.)
gaw: Your point is well taken but you have to remember increasing property/school taxes is a public referendum decided upon by the voters. The realpolitik reality is that voters who are denied funding for their children’s school education are unlikely to vote for a school tax increase. The voters take the position that the government should fund their children’s secular education in private schools (or charter schools). They’re not asking for the religious studies to be funded; but they do want the secular studies in private school to be tax funded. And it isn’t. In some States (i.e. Florida and some other Republican States) they do fund private school education (for the secular studies portion.) So it certainly is legal to do so, yet many States refuse to do it. So if it is legal to fund their schools and the government doesn’t, naturally they will vote down school tax initiatives.July 24, 2015 4:06 pm at 4:06 pm #1094448
Your point is well taken but you have to remember increasing property/school taxes is a public referendum decided upon by the voters. The realpolitik reality is that voters who are denied funding for their children’s school education are unlikely to vote for a school tax increase.
That about sums it up. Cut off nose to spite face.
P.S. I thought Lakewood doesn’t have secular studies after sixth grade?
P.P.S. A thought on how to get private schools tax funded would be to hire union labor, who would see it as an opening for more union jobs. Otherwise, paying private schools is an attack on the union, which is strong on the east coast (and a stronger block vote than the Jews of Ramapo or Lakewood).
Final note: If Lakewooders don’t like their situation, they can still move to Florida or another voucher state.
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