March 10, 2017 3:04 am at 3:04 am #619443
Am I allowed to say that I found a rabbi more open-minded than another one that I talked to in the past?
I was talking to an acquaintance earlier this evening about which shuls we go to, and told him that I recently found a shul that I really like and am amazed at how accepted I felt at the shul. He said that all rabbis are like that. I started to say, “Not for me, I was so surprised…”
Then stopped myself and said that I think that I am talking lashon hara. Then I remembered that I needed to get something from my car, seriously and it was such a yatzar tov interruption.
Was that lashon hara?
Thank youMarch 10, 2017 3:08 am at 3:08 am #1227686JosephParticipant
Did you mention names or were the names of the particular rabbis understood by those hearing your comment?March 10, 2017 3:10 am at 3:10 am #1227687
If there is no “toeles” (beneficial purpose), I believe it is. And it doesn’t sound like there was any toeles here. Even when there is “toeles” there are numerous conditions in order for it to be okay.March 10, 2017 3:25 am at 3:25 am #1227688
I was going to mention that if you don’t mention names and they won’t be able to figure it out, it’s okay.
BUT, you have to be very careful with that (which is why I was reluctant to mention it). The Frum world is very small and often people can end up figuring out who you are talking about even if you don’t think they will. I definitely know of cases where that happened.
It’s also happened to me that someone told me a story about someone without saying the name, and then another time the same person told me the story again (having forgotten that they had already told it to me), but this time they said the name but said it with less details. They didn’t remember that they had already told me the story with more details so now I knew who it was about.March 10, 2017 3:29 am at 3:29 am #1227689
“Did you mention names or were the names of the particular rabbis understood by those hearing your comment?”
The ones who I was less enthusiastic about?
No not at all. I was thinking back about a number of rabbis and not for everything but in some ways.
I said no names. He does not know of the rabbis that I was talking about or what other shuls I could possibly be referring to.
I did not even have one specific one in mind, but more of a general vibe and meant that recently I found a shul that was different for me in a big way (though honestly all the other rabbis were super good to me and went out of their way to do so much and bless me — and of course I still daven for them and their families with gratitude).
The point was that I was super enthusiastic about this shul and was implying that he would have a fun experience if he went there for Purim (he asked me if I knew of any Purim parties, and I said no not really but yes at the shul that I started going to recently).
The last time I talked to him, we spoke about Judaism and it sounded like while he attended his shul sometimes, he was turned off by the classes (told me that specifically that he didn’t go back after one lesson).
So my intention was that he may really enjoy himself at this shul with this rabbi who was/is a lot of fun.March 10, 2017 3:36 am at 3:36 am #1227690
I stopped talking because I felt like I was being super ungrateful and knew that Hashem sent me those experiences for lessons and to improve myself.
Who knows. Maybe if I met this rabbi first, then I would not be as motivated to grow. So why am I even complaining, or pseudo-complaining?
I guess that feeling was real and even if it wasn’t lashon hara it was lashon hara to me because it violated my sense of being grateful.March 10, 2017 8:06 am at 8:06 am #1227691
LB – that is beautiful. A big part of the concept of LH is that it’s lowly to speak negatively about people. That is why it is brought down that even in cases where it is permissible to speak LH about others, it is still a good middah not to.March 10, 2017 8:08 am at 8:08 am #1227692
btw, I am wondering why being a lot of fun is a qualification for choosing a Rabbi? That doesn’t sit so well with me. Unless you just thought it was the only way to get this particular person to start going to shul more often, etc.March 10, 2017 2:00 pm at 2:00 pm #1227693
Yes by fun I meant that the rabbi is funny. Actually a couple LOR here are and I never met his rabbi but the person made it sound like the LOR that he talked to was more serious (but maybe that was my impression and he was not).
I figured that maybe this LOR would respond to his questions in a different manner. Maybe not. Just because a LOR laughs and/or is sarcastic does not mean that when he talks about halacha he doesn’t get serious.
Dunno. But thank you because maybe that wasn’t the best way to even sell the experience. He was looking for a Purim party and so I don’t know. Come to this shul it’s so much fun. Maybe it is not any more fun and maybe his is more fun because he is familiar with it and the crowd there may be younger and/or more fun for him.March 10, 2017 2:01 pm at 2:01 pm #1227694
Being a fun is not a qualification for a LOR but it does make coming to shul more enjoyable.
Being open-minded in the sense that I can share about myself and feel accepted is a qualification imho. Open-minded also goes for a Rebbetzin. At least having a flexible mind.March 10, 2017 2:09 pm at 2:09 pm #1227695
Example of flexibility and open-minded in my eyes…
In one situation, I had a rabbi and rebbetzin tell me the same thing but the way that they framed it made all the difference.
One that said that “This is Wrong. I don’t do it because it was wrong and I cannot do that.” That was it. I didn’t get answers. Just felt blocked.
Someone else said that “This is wrong and so okay what is happening now will pass and soon I will do what is right.” This person understood that I did not live in a bubble and said that this is “just for now” and encouraged me to do what was best for my neshama and wellbeing.
I felt more comfortable coming back to the second one.
A third person and also LOR, about the same topic but months later when things thank G-d changed, said that what happened in the past was wrong and that there is something better for me and I need to protect myself from being in that situation again. Imho that was also more open-minded and sensitive to how I came to be in that situation in the first place. It helped me heal. That approach made a huge difference.March 10, 2017 2:11 pm at 2:11 pm #1227696
Maybe it’s like good cop bad cop? Both voices are important and together the message is stronger?
Also for the first person, I am guessing that since the person had more personal knowledge of the situation, it was harder not to come off so strongly against it.
This person also probably saw this happening time and again and may have wanted to make sure that I was not going to be just another person too. Esp since this person had a big role in my awakening.
So yea. Thank you. I am the one who was being harsh here and not being more appreciative.
Thank youMarch 14, 2017 2:37 am at 2:37 am #1227697rebshidduchParticipant
lightbrite, why were you talking to a guy?March 14, 2017 2:55 am at 2:55 am #1227698
Rebshidduch: Good question.
First of all, when I respond to your posts, I explain what I think that the right thing to do is, halachally.
Second of all, it was a guy from my class and after class I asked him whether or not he was going to shul for Purim. Then I got into a discussion with him for a few minutes before going home.
It’s guy that I gave a siddur to and later felt bad about it and realized that next time I get such an urge to give, my test is to hold myself back.
And for the record, he is not a friend and I would not hang out with him.March 14, 2017 9:44 pm at 9:44 pm #1227699
Rebshidduch, just want to point out that lightbrite is in a very different stage of life than you are (in many ways) and the fact that it may be okay for her to talk to a guy does not necessarily mean that it is okay for you.
Something can be assur for one person and muttar for another. From what I know of you and Lightbrite (including your ages, backgrounds, personalities, mindsets,etc.) I think that it was probably mutar for LB to talk to this guy and that it is assur for you to talk to guys.
The main difference is that a 20 year old girl talking to a guy is very different from a girl in her 30’s talking to a guy.March 14, 2017 11:12 pm at 11:12 pm #1227700
The main difference is that a 20 year old girl talking to a guy is very different from a girl in her 30’s talking to a guy.
I’m pretty sure this is not the case.March 14, 2017 11:43 pm at 11:43 pm #1227701
And I know that it is. If you don’t think so, it is probably because you don’t understand why it is different.
But there are other factors as well, and some girls in their 30’s may be like a 20 year old.
In this particular case, there is definitely a big difference.March 14, 2017 11:51 pm at 11:51 pm #1227702
That last comment was very clearly not referencing this particular case, which is why I was not comfortable paying it and considered editing it. It is written a way that implies there is a halachic or hashkofic difference in the expected behavior of a girl of 20 or 30.March 15, 2017 12:17 am at 12:17 am #1227703
Please note that I did not say anything about halachic or hashkafic differences per se’. What I said is that the two are very different. My point is that when a 20 year old girl talks to a boy something very different is going on than when a girl in her 30’s talks to a boy (at least in most cases). You simply can’t compare a 20 year old girl to a girl in her 30’s.
There are other differences in this case, and perhaps it is those differences that are more important in this particular case, but I felt that emphasizing this difference would be understood better by the person to whom the comment was directed.
If you still feel it is hard to understand, consider the following points:
1. The Gedolim encourage girls in their 30’s to talk to boys. I know this for a fact. I may be wrong, but I am not sure they would do the same regarding a 20 year old girl.
2. Have you ever seen a 20 year old talking to a boy? Have you ever seen a girl in her 30’s talking to a boy? Can’t you see the difference? (again, there are exceptions, but I am talking about the majority). That is one of the reasons why I am assuming that most Gedolim would not say that 20 year old girls should talk to boys.March 15, 2017 12:20 am at 12:20 am #1227704
by the way, payment for my comments is unnecessary. Although, considering how much time I spend on them, some payment would be nice, if you really insist 🙂March 15, 2017 12:24 am at 12:24 am #1227705
I do appreciate the fact that you phrased your opinions very carefully and politely. I am always happy to hear polite feedback on my comments, especially if someone felt there was a halachic or hashkafic problem with something I wrote. I definitely appreciate hearing why you took issue with my comment instead of just deleting it without an explanation.March 15, 2017 12:52 am at 12:52 am #1227706
Unfortunately it is not always easy to do so.
I am not having a problem understanding, what you wrote is not correct and your explanation does not match what you originally wrote.March 15, 2017 12:54 am at 12:54 am #1227707
I don’t see a contradiction; would you like to point out where you see one?March 15, 2017 1:41 am at 1:41 am #1227708
So I just came into this post after a long day and many comments.
The difference comes from what is acknowledging the unspoken here.
I, at 20, was a whole different person. I literally had a best friend who would pull my arm whenever a guy was talking to me. He would ask me questions, and I answered to be nice and thought that anyone who asks me questions really wants to know the answers.
I, by 30, realized that some guys are not straight-forward. Some make excuses to talk to me. Many of these some guys are toxic.
The rest of the guys that I talked to were there for a reason, gave me insight on something with a brief conversation, a crossing of paths. Half of the humans that I talk to happen to be guys.
Thanks to one guy that I talked to one a random day, I now have an awesome friend — his wife! She is helping me grow in Yiddishkeit way beyond anyone else that I’ve known IRL. Sometimes Hashem bestows Hashgacha Pratis in ways that maybe would have not worked over ten years ago.March 15, 2017 1:47 am at 1:47 am #1227709☢️ Rand0m3x 🎲Participant
The Gedolim encourage girls in their 30s to talk to boys.
?March 15, 2017 1:49 am at 1:49 am #1227710
Guessing single girls — of which I am.
Btw the guy that I was talking to here, I asked if there were people our age at his shul (because at my shul now, I’m like one of two single people)March 15, 2017 1:59 am at 1:59 am #1227711
My friends and I approached a well-known Gadol for a bracha when we were at a Shabbaton that included a singles’ component. He asked us why we weren’t at the singles’ melave malka taking place right then.
He told us that he was at a chasuna and he had 20 girls lining up one side of the mechitza for brachos and 20 boys lining up on the other for brachos. He said, “Why are you talking to me? You should be talking to each other.”
I also know of at least one Gadol who gave us his haskama to a singles’ Shabbaton.
My assumption (although I could be wrong) was that they were referring to singles over a certain age. In the first example, I think we were all in our 30’s at the time (there was one girl whose age I’m not sure of, but if she wasn’t in her 30’s, I think she was close).
For one thing, a 20 year old hasn’t really given the standard shidduch system a shot, whereas the girl in her 30’s obviously has and may need something different. For another, a girl in her 30’s is (hopefully) on a completely different maturity level, and as I wrote before, there is a big difference (most of the time) between a 20 year old talking to a boy and a 30 year old talking to a boy.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.