Lashon Hora: Our hardest tikkun?

Home Forums Decaffeinated Coffee Lashon Hora: Our hardest tikkun?

Viewing 24 posts - 1 through 24 (of 24 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #611863

    While the goyim teach about positive speech, we, Yidden, have a very hard time with lashon hora and chinas hinam. I have seen lashon hora destroy marriages, children’s lives, and shidduchim. Why do we promise to learn this on Tisha B’Av and forget it the rest of the year? Why is this our hardest tikkun of all?

    #999178

    Don’t know. Ask the snake.

    p.s. don’t talk bad about us Jews either

    #999179

    Just stating facts. I love being Jewish and love the Jewish people, but we have a problem that we have to fix in order to see the Beis HaMikdash.

    #999180

    I don’t think it says anywhere that the building of the bais hamikdash is contingent exclusively on the perfection of the laws of speech. It certainly helps, however there are many areas that could use refinement.

    #999181

    Hillel Hazaken said, “What is hateful unto you, do not do to another. This is the whole Torah. All the rest is commentary.”

    There is a reason for mitzvot, of course, they make us grateful to our Maker who gives us everything. But if the whole Torah is bein adam l’chavero, isn’t lashon hora a number one criteria for redemption?

    #999182
    fkelly
    Member

    Since when do only nonJews teach positive speech? And I will point out that the bullying and cursing that goes on in public schools cannot be compared with how Jewish children act. Instead of knocking a while group of people, maybe focus on how good they are in comparison to others.

    #999184

    I know we are trying to change this by becoming more and more aware of it and as mentioned I love our nation, I just think we have one more step to overcome before we see redemption.

    #999185

    Again:

    1) the whole Torah is definitely NOT bein adam l’chavero. As for what Hillel responded to that Non-Jew, there are many, many mefarshim, answers. The place is not here. It can obviously not be taken at face value.

    2) As I pointed, sefarim, so numerous, each list certain aspects that need to be mended. The famous one of the Ohr Hachaim – limud haTorah. Others point to Kedushah – tznius. Shmiras halashon is one. Of many.

    3) It’s not the job of a Jew to be a so called “light unto the nations”. We are bidden to do the mitzvohs of HaShem, because that is His willing. Nothing more, nothing less. Incidentally, while scrupulously fullfilling HaShem’s commandments, we become a “light unto the nations”, but it’s not our focus, or goal at all.

    4) Sure, we have way to go in Shmiras Halashon, as you pointed out. However, you failed to mention the so many communities where there are groups so diligently studying (and eventually practicing) these complex laws. Is there even such a concept by the non-Jews? To study laws in order to KEEP THEM?!? Refraining from derogatory speech, even where the subject is NOT PRESENT?!? Not hurting someone’s feelings?!? WHO but us YIDDEN?

    #999186

    I want to reiterate that every part of our Torah is holy and meant to make us holy, but that according to many of our Torah sources and our holidays is the concept of the removal of sinas chinam. During Pesach, we ask that we be rid of our enemies. During Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur we ask that we be forgiven by our enemies. When we sleep at night, we say we will forgive everyone who has hurt us. Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed because of cruelty. In the morning, we pray not to be hurt by anyone. In Psalms, we read about enemies and ask Hashem to protect us. On Yom Kippur we read the story of Jonah, where he had to remind the people of Ninveh to be kind to one another. In Shavuot, we read about an exemplary relationship between Ruth and her mother-in-law. During the Omer, we learn about Rabbi Akiva’s students who didn’t respect one another. During the Av, we learn about the destruction of the Second Temple due to sinas chinam. Purim, when camaraderie is at its best, is an example of the future redemption. Am I missing something or are most of the holidays related to teaching us how to behave bein adam Lchavero? I think that when the Torah talks about enemies, we see that as other nations, when in fact they can be people in our lives or personal enemies.

    #999187
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    posthink not newspeak

    #999188

    There’s nothing new under the sun. All in the Torah. It’s just that since Hashem is shalom, mahlokes destroys individually and collectively. I have seen it in many places, even in the news. It’s not a matter of restricting our freedom to speak as we choose, but simply to make it a daily conscious decision with the awareness that every word counts.

    #999189
    oyyoyyoy
    Participant

    pretty sure in hakdamah of shmiras haloshon by the chofetz chaim he says its the main thing that needs to be fixed for the geulah, dont have one around me though.

    #999191

    1. Ayn Torah b’goyim. Yesh chochma b’goyim – Positive speech brings prosperity?

    2. The face of the generation of Moshiach will be like dogs–Our Sages compare speakers of lashon hora to dogs.

    3. On a regular year, Tzaria and Metzora are read together–are they connected to choosing life?

    From the introduction of the Chofetz Chaim:

    “Our Sages state that that taking on the observance of this mitzvah and strengthening it throughout klal Israel is the most effective means of laying the foundation of the Beis HaMikdash.”

    “What more is there to say about this sin (lashon hora) which is the severest of all sins? Man’s ULTIMATE task is to not sin with his mouth. The Sages say that one’s good deeds and Torah knowledge cannot offset the damage that one does with speech…”(Excerpts from a letter by the Vilna Gaon).

    #999192
    hudi
    Participant

    TROLL me thinks…..

    #999193

    Not a troll, just hoping for Geula.

    #999194
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    I agree with Little Froggie. The OP is not speaking positively.

    #999195

    One last time:

    Again (and again), yes, I know about the Villna Goan, Chofetz Chaim. These are most severe sins. However, as I pointed out earlier, there are many, many seforim that talk about different aspects that have to be mended. Formost, as I mentioned, is limud haTorah, as the Ohr Hachaim clearly writes.

    Had the geulah been contingent on Shmiras haDibur alone, the Mashiach would long have been here, as I mentioned the so many Shmiras haDibur groups. The only ones I find talking bad are those that say we talk bad.

    I completely lost you drift in this last one:

    “1. Ayn Torah b’goyim. Yesh chochma b’goyim – Positive speech brings prosperity?”

    -Who?, what? (is that a new ma’amar chazal??)

    “2. The face of the generation of Moshiach will be like dogs–Our Sages compare speakers of lashon hora to dogs.”

    -is this some new “pshat” you’re attributing to the holy words of Chazal? (actually no one compares speakers of lashon hora to dogs, it says it it fit to throw him to the dogs – ???? ??????? ??????.

    “3. On a regular year, Tzaria and Metzora are read together–are they connected to choosing life?”

    -again Who?, what? (and where).

    As I wrote before, those are very severe sins, ???? ??? ?????? ???? ????? ????. However they don’t constitute the whole Torah or YiddishKite.

    The one previously about having our Yomim Tovim something to do with sinas chinam – I didn’t want to respond. But I guess if you’re still sticking to this, I might as well…

    —-

    “…I want to reiterate that every part of our Torah is holy and meant to make us holy, but that according to many of our Torah sources and our holidays is the concept of the removal of sinas chinam. During Pesach, we ask that we be rid of our enemies. (WHAT?!?) During Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur we ask that we be forgiven by our enemies.(Repeat – WHAT?!? We ask forgiviness from HaShem, incidentally, Yom Kippur does not forgive if one has not made up with one he/she wronged.) When we sleep at night, we say we will forgive everyone who has hurt us. (good idea) Sodom and Gomorrah (amorah, gemorah is what we learn) was destroyed because of cruelty. (and many other sins, true, the leading one was bain adam lchaveiro) In the morning, we pray not to be hurt by anyone. (We do?!? – and therefore??) In Psalms, we read about enemies and ask Hashem to protect us. (I’d like to be protected from my enemies too, wouldn’t you?) On Yom Kippur we read the story of Jonah, where he had to remind the people of Ninveh to be kind to one another. In Shavuot, we read about an exemplary relationship between Ruth and her mother-in-law. (we read from the Torah about many more things irrelevant to relationships, why Rus is read is for many reasons) During the Omer, we learn about Rabbi Akiva’s students who didn’t respect one another. (yes, we do, that’s a season to perfect ourselves in these aspects) During the Av, we learn about the destruction of the Second Temple due to sinas chinam. (and in the case of the first bais hamikdash, other grave sins, learning Torah) Purim, when camaraderie is at its best, is an example of the future redemption. (again, WHAT?!?) Am I missing something or are most of the holidays related to teaching us how to behave bein adam Lchavero? (I can’t comment if you’re missing anything. Yomim Tovim, moadei HaShem, is something between a person and his creator. Period. No matter how you want to distort, contort. Of course there’s a general mitzvah that a person should think of another less fortunate, especially during Holidays, and make them likewise joyful – it’s NOT THE ESSENCE of the moed) I think that when the Torah talks about enemies, we see that as other nations, when in fact they can be people in our lives or personal enemies..(completely lost you here)

    #999196
    writersoul
    Participant

    As far as Jews vs goyim, there was a TV program a few years back where the studio first interviewed a college about their problems with gossiping and bullying and then had a segment on a frum girls’ school and their Mishmeres program. I highly recommend giving it a watch.

    #999197

    http://www.aish.com/tp/i/gl/Insights-of-Rashi-Lashon-Hara.html

    Shmot(Exodus 1:1-6:1)

    The commentaries note a number of problems with this Midrash.2 The Chofetz Chaim focuses on the issue of why it was the sin of lashon hara in particular that brought about such severe suffering on the Jewish people; he points out that the Jewish people were guilty of idol worship and yet that was not the cause.3

    The sin of lashon hara is different because it involves speech. Therefore, the Angel created by it receives the power of speech. This gives it the ability to verbally express the nature of the lashon hara that the person perpetrated; but the Chofetz Chaim goes further and says that this Angel also enumerates all the hitherto unmentioned sins that the person committed. Thus speaking lashon hara opens the floodgates for punishment of numerous other sins.

    This explains why the fact that the Jewish people spoke lashon hara resulted in the tremendous suffering they endured in Egypt. Without this flaw they would have been spared punishment for their other sins such as idol worship, but once it became clear to Moshe that they stumbled in this area he understood the severity of this exile.

    (more proof to come)

    #999198

    Final thoughts from the Chofetz Chaim introduction:

    “The cosmic repercussions of this issue (lashon hora) are so intense that they have literally shaped the destiny of our people.”

    “We think we’re only exchanging a few words, when in fact, we are moving worlds.”

    #999199

    Yes, both of these last posts are “tzum zach”, to the point.

    However, I’m happy to be reporting, that us Yidden have lately taken a BIG interest in these laws, all around the world. Many movements, groups etc. (see, I just spoke good..)

    #999201

    as a girl, i think tznius is harder

    #999202
    oyyoyyoy
    Participant

    wow, girls have it bad!

    #999203

    Tznius is also bein adam l’chavero. Guarding our eyes and appreciating what we have is bein adam l’chavero. Attracting what isn’t ours causes mahlokes and leads to lashon hora and a host of other problems. All are interrelated.

Viewing 24 posts - 1 through 24 (of 24 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.