June 30, 2022 1:09 pm at 1:09 pm #2101866
so trump grabbed the steering wheel and wanted to go lead the charge to the capitol on Jan 6.
I guess his heel spurs healed nicely.
och n’ vay that so many orthodox jews still support such a drivel-headJune 30, 2022 2:33 pm at 2:33 pm #2102003lowerourtuition11210Participant
Maybe you haven’t heard that testimony is being refuted by the secret service agents who were actually in the car. Unlike the person who testified that wasnt in the car.June 30, 2022 5:21 pm at 5:21 pm #2102049asdfghjkl111Participant
I wouldn’t call myself a trump supporter, but you do have to realize we’ve been getting lies and false claims about him for 6 years now. It’s all a bunch of nonsense.June 30, 2022 5:22 pm at 5:22 pm #2102050GadolhadorahParticipant
It will be interesting what this twosome will have to say under OATH. They were known to be openly “pro- Trump” which is a bit unusual for members of the “apolitical” secret servie protective detail. They were also reported to be the agents who “volunteered” to get into the limo with Trump when he was hospitalized with Covid 2 years ago but wanted to “drive around” to wave at his supporters outside Bethesda Naval Hospital/Walter Reed. I’m hopeful this never happened but if it c’v did, did he “assault” the agents//June 30, 2022 5:28 pm at 5:28 pm #2102053🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
I just deleted the third response I’ve typed out for this thread. How do you try to have an intelligent dialogue with people not bothered by 3rd party hearsay presented as testimony.June 30, 2022 7:39 pm at 7:39 pm #2102082
Why wouldn’t Donald Trump testify under oath to refute all of the allegations instead of posting numerous denials daily on his Truth Social platform?June 30, 2022 7:40 pm at 7:40 pm #2102084
This is a good lesson in halochos edut … Some witnesses are called, others are not.. with all the excitement, I am not even sure what is a potential charge? Assault on the secret service? Attempted driving without a license? Hate crime?
I am also reminding that Trump was previously accused of lying to his supporters that he will go with them. Turns out he actually tried.June 30, 2022 7:41 pm at 7:41 pm #2102086
Was there a judge in the courtroom to object to hearsay?
Because it wasn’t a courtroom , there was no defendant, no prosecutor, no lawyer defender and no judge either.
Besides, there are a gazillion exceptions to the hearsay rule.June 30, 2022 8:42 pm at 8:42 pm #2102114
FYI Trump’s heel spurs healed once the Vietnam draft ended never to be heard of again.June 30, 2022 9:12 pm at 9:12 pm #2102128
> , there was no defendant, no prosecutor, no lawyer defender and no judge either.
> Besides, there are a gazillion exceptions to the hearsay rule.
and this is why they are called _hearings_June 30, 2022 9:39 pm at 9:39 pm #2102138
>>>It will be interesting what this twosome will have to say under OATH.
Isn’t going to happen. The J6 committee is clearly uninterested in hearing from now. They did speak to them more than once in the past in an effort to find dirt on Trump but now that they may be saying something that weakens the value of a testimony against him they are avoiding these people like the plague.June 30, 2022 9:45 pm at 9:45 pm #2102142ujmParticipant
moishala: President Trump, just like ever American, had every right constitutionally under the First Amendment, guarantees of free speech to lead a public demonstration, protest and rally at the Capitol.June 30, 2022 10:08 pm at 10:08 pm #2102152tunaisafishParticipant
its not about that its about the fact that trump is a bad bad guy and the dems are good cause they want to get rid of trump harashaJune 30, 2022 11:14 pm at 11:14 pm #2102169
Mick Mulvaney, former acting WH COS:
Cheney’s closing is stunning: they think they have evidence of witness tampering and obstruction of justice.
There is an old maxim: it’s never the crime, it’s always the coverup.
Things went very badly for the former President today. My guess is that it will get worse from hereJuly 1, 2022 8:46 am at 8:46 am #2102215
Ujm. You still spouting the BIG LIE that the attempted coup was just a stroll in the park?
Shame on youJuly 1, 2022 8:48 am at 8:48 am #2102221akupermaParticipant
If there were cross examination and a more neutral panel (if Trump was allowed to have a lawyer who cross examined witnesses, and if membership on the panel wasn’t limited to people who had previously denounced Trump as a criminal), one would see the absurdity of the case (the witnesses in the car with Trump said he didn’t grab the steering wheel – hearsay by someone who an “interest” in the case would usually be disallowed). To convince the country that Trump was trying to seize the government, they need direct evidence that he was in touch with the armed forces since without military support a coup would be impossible.
fixed typoJuly 1, 2022 10:08 am at 10:08 am #2102279
I would very much like to hear testimony under oath from Donald Trump, Mike Pence, Mark Meadows, Roger Stone, Rudy Guiliani, and the Secret Service agents. Their testimony is necessary to give Americans a complete understanding of the last days of the Trump administration.July 1, 2022 10:49 am at 10:49 am #2102301
This is like a Russia’s tactic – first try to encircle half a country, if this does not work: encricle a village a declare victory. Here, we have gone from trying to size the government to attempted seizing the SUV wheel from a designated driver via disputed hearsay. I would say, even if there were kosher eidim on both sides, the wheel stays with the secret service by chazokah.July 1, 2022 10:51 am at 10:51 am #2102308
Trump did not need the military to support a coup. He didn’t need a single military personnel. In fact, all the General’s told him that they are not helping him.
Neither Trump, nor any Republican, believs that he needed the military. If he did, what was going on January 6th with Trump being very disappointed with Mike Pence ?
He was doing everything through a very illegal and unconstitutional plan without firing a single AR-15.
The plan, as has been stated a million times, and is very clear from the hearings, was that Trump wanted Mike Pence not to certify the legal electors that the states had sent him.
He wanted Pence to use the “alternate” (i.e false) electors sent by the state’s republican party.
Once that happened, the legal atomic bomb that Mike Pence had dropped, was going to cause a legal civil war.
SCOTUS was going to have to get involved and who knows what they would have done. In fact, I am sure that Ginni promised Trump that her husband was completely onboard and he would get the other 2 Trump nominees on board also.
Congress would also have gotten involved and we know that the Republicans were going to side with Trump.
Currently in 2022, the court (made of some judges who are supreme and many who are really not ) has just decided to take on a controversial election-law case. Depending on their decision , the next election will be easy-peasy for the Republicans to steal. It is the independent state legislature theory.
In its most extreme form, the independent state legislature theory was invoked — unsuccessfully — by Trump advocates in an effort to sidestep the legitimate outcome of the 2020 election. In Arizona, for instance, some Trump supporters used the theory in calling for the decertification of the state’s electors. Among those seeking decertification was Virginia Thomas, the wife of Justice Clarence Thomas.July 1, 2022 10:52 am at 10:52 am #2102313
yaakov, why do we need everyone under oath just because someone is outraged? why not Hillarsy Clinton under oath – is it true or not that she attempted battery of a sitting (laying & lying) President with an electrified weapon (throwing a lamp at the President)? What did President Obama mean when he promised more flexibility to Russia on a hot mike?July 1, 2022 2:44 pm at 2:44 pm #2102365erParticipant
Points on allegation that Hutchinson lied:
1. Tony Ornato and the secret service guy’s testimonies agreed with Hutchinson that Trump did argue to go to capital and was very upset. The only thing disputed is whether he lunged for the wheel and pushed somebody. So largely they AGREE.
2. Ornato was initially with secret service but became a confidante of Trump, and Trump appointed him Deputy Chief of Staff due to his loyalty. So he’s 1000% a Trump guy and has more credibility issues than Hutchinson, who has no obvious reason to lie about this detail and whose testimony largely is backed up by others, texts, and emails. Also the committee members had said that Ornato and secret service guy were very evasive during testimony and were clearly protecting Trump.
Any flawed reasoning with the above?
Akuperma: again, this is not a criminal trial. This is to investigate and publicize some evidence they choose to highlight. Guaranteed that most decisions you’ve made in life – , who NOT to do business with, who NOT to lend money to – who NOT to vote for – were not based on opportunities to cross examine. Watch the hearings yourself and judge credibility for yourself.July 1, 2022 4:20 pm at 4:20 pm #2102400ujmParticipant
Having State Legislatures change the electoral college vote is not only completely legal but is their constitutional right.July 1, 2022 4:57 pm at 4:57 pm #2102410
“why not Hillarsy Clinton under oath”
She testified for 13 hours in one of the 37,000 Benghazi investigations.
Trump doesn’t dare testify under oath.July 1, 2022 4:57 pm at 4:57 pm #2102405
>>>So he’s 1000% a Trump guy and has more credibility issues than Hutchinson
If you aren’t going to believe people because of which side they are on you may as well close down the whole J6 committee. And it never should have started to begin withJuly 1, 2022 4:57 pm at 4:57 pm #2102406
“membership on the panel wasn’t limited to people who had previously denounced Trump as a criminal”
It wasn’t limited. Kevin McCarthy refused to allow Republicans who support Trump to serve on the Committee.July 1, 2022 4:58 pm at 4:58 pm #2102407
“not only completely legal”
Not after the election already took place.July 1, 2022 4:58 pm at 4:58 pm #2102409
“testimony is being refuted by the secret service agents who were actually in the car”
Which was refuted when it was discovered that Trump was not in the car but in an SUV and video was discovered that shows Trump lunging toward the front seat of the SUV.July 1, 2022 5:49 pm at 5:49 pm #2102423Yserbius123Participant
As anyone who knows me here knows, I am not a Trump supporter. However, whether or not he attempted to grab the steering wheel of the car he was in (in the back seat, with several very fit very armed guards around him) is a stupid argument. What does it prove exactly? Can he be charged for attempting to join a riot?July 1, 2022 6:46 pm at 6:46 pm #2102428
Yserbius, thanks for restoring my faith in humanity.
Jackk just fantasized about a possible way Trump could have changed election results in a completely legal way, using elected representatives and judges. You should have posted this earlier, so tha we could have passed it to T.July 2, 2022 11:23 pm at 11:23 pm #2102546
>>>So he’s 1000% a Trump guy and has more credibility issues than Hutchinson
Right. When Hutchinson is repeating hearsay in the name of Ornato that was allegedly said when he was not under oath the Democrats scream “how can Trump supporters be so crazy as not to believe it?”
When Ornato is willing to give first hand testimony under oath the Democrats scream “how can anyone believe a guy like Ornato?”July 3, 2022 8:46 am at 8:46 am #2102575tunaisafishParticipant
Trump is a tzadik he would never do any bad things please stop saying loshon horah about dovid ben fred.July 4, 2022 12:51 pm at 12:51 pm #2103104
actually his name is daniel ben fraud
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