Learning Torah protects

YYA,

I got your “humor” but there’s something seriously wrong with you to joke when boys are literally fighting, bleeding and dying.

Do everyone a favor, drop your counter-productive PR and “Kiruv”. Go to the Beis Medrash and start learning; you claim it’s most important to you so act like it.

YYA > First of all, you speak as if the government fully “bankrolls” the Chareidim, and as if that is the reason they are able to survive. …If you think parents don’t work hard, fight, bleed, and even die, you have never raised a house full of.teenagers…

I think what GH and I both are trying to say – you are looking from the inside of your community, but look from their POV. You are asking for credit for raising your own kids and saying that government support does not matter. Meanwhile, the others hear that your politicians are always demanding more and blowing up governments that does something for the country on every issue of your community.

And I am not asking for unrealistic 100% turns on any of these issues. Just stop blaming and complaining and try to find small ways to show others that good that you can show them. A

AAQ – For the record, as a matter of principle I have never voted in any Israeli election, so they are not “my politicians”. Nor have I ever taken a shekel from the State other than things that every citizen is automatically eligible for equally, such as subsidized health care, even when eligible to do so, also as a matter of principle. Everything you and most others here think that you know about the POV of the different groups in Israel is based on reading news. That isn’t a good way to get to know anything, let alone something as complicated as this.

Speaking of POV, I’m sure you don’t do this deliberately, but you and other Frum Jews who post here, regularly use negatively slanted language and apply double standards towards Chareidim. When Goyim (or secular Jews) in the NYT, WSJ, or broadcast media, do the same to Israel, you (and I) rightfully call them antisemites.

“Your politicians are always DEMANDING more” [Something was legislated years ago/Bagatz-AG strike down the law/Chareidim ASK, like every politician would, to RETURN WHAT WAS ALREADY = Chareidim DEMAND more…]

“On every issue of your community.” Name one other “community” issue in the last 30 years that was, by itself, a reason for Chareidim toppling a government. I’m waiting… לזכותה ייאמר, an RZ MK broke ranks with her own party and toppled the Bennett government for religious reasons.

“Just stop blaming and complaining.” In other words, don’t answer back or otherwise defend yourself when we blame and complain about you. I never initiated any thread here. All I did was respond to various complaints towards Chareidim, mostly by people with limited knowledge of the subject.

Another commenter accused me of engaging in “PR”, for having the chutzpah to defend the Yeshiva World on a website called “Yeshiva World News”…

“and try to find small ways to show others that good that you can show them”

Some big ways:

Yad Sarah, Ichud Hatzalah, Zaka, Efrat (a mostly Chareidi organization that by definition helps ONLY Chilonim…), all of the major food distribution Tzedakas help very many beneficiaries who aren’t Chareidim, ditto for the Bikur Cholims, many non-Chareidim with special needs children send them to Chareidi places where they get better care. Laniado Medical Center in Netanya was built by the Klausenberger Rebbe זצ״ל, and serves the greater Netanya area, which is decidedly non-Chareidi, aside from the one small neighborhood where it is located. Yad L’Achim, aside from its Kiruv work, famously works to rescue Jewish women from Arab villages, at great risk to themselves. Most of those women aren’t Chareidi… Apologies to those organizations I didn’t remember by name off the top of my head.

Some smaller ways:

Very many Chareidi volunteers who bring joy to patients and family in hospitals and nursing homes, special children, the mentally and emotionally challenged, and yes, hold on tight, to – soldiers. For some strange reason, the soldiers never threw rotten tomatoes at us… In fact, they less-than-legally allowed us into encampments of IDF soldiers adjacent to Gaza, who were quite glad to see us.

I deliberately focused on general Chareidi activity, and left out things specific to certain groups (Chabad being the most obvious example) or individuals (Chareidi donors, who help many non-Chareidi beneficiaries). There are also Chareidi volunteers in not (exclusively or primarily) Chareidi organizations.

None of this is secret, and none of this is new. So why does this even need to be pointed out to people on “Yeshiva World” News?

Gadolhadofi – I have six members of my extended family currently serving in Gaza, my son-in-law’s friend and next door neighbor was killed in action, as was the niece of a very close friend of my wife (she was a border guard who was killed in the initial attack), who’s husband davens in the same shul I do. So I don’t live under a rock or in a bubble. (Or in America for that matter…)

YYA, you have a point, we are always stereotyping here, it is a nature of online anon discussion, thanks for reminding to keep it lower.

I am mostly responding to the positions articulated here by posters and sometimes articles with pronouncements. I am obviously aware that not everyone thinks like that – and I welcome when someone says that, like you sometimes do! I do think that info we are getting reflects some of the reality. I do get more feedback from US in-town communities – and sometimes stereotypes are, sadly, confirmed. Again, not to say everyone is doing same. One of my kids gets jelous sometimes and recently when the guest was discussing what kind of medical, dental, and educational things they get for free while we pay thousands dollars for, the kid started repeating after each item – why don’t we move to NY!? I had to shash him, so we dn’t get into discussion what kind of poverty programs are involved in getting all this “free” stuff.

AAQ – My impression is that every negotiation with charedim usually negotiate for the various social benefits for the community, like paying for Nth kid more than for (N-1)st, etc.

The child subsidies battle was lost over 20 years ago, and was never seriously revisited since then. It was not a game changer for Chareidim, but possibly was for Arabs, although there were other factors involved.

AAQ – As a contrast, a lot of Mizrachi battles early on in Israel was about establishing religious institutions for the whole country.

If you are referring to the Rabbanut, that is something that started two decades before the State. We had a discussion a while back about who was behind that, what for, and whether it was a good idea. Mizrachi was in fact much more involved, why that was so is more complicated. The big battles during the beginning years of the State saw very much Chareidi involvement and Mizrachi silence. They had their reasons for not fighting, and some of them reverberate down to today’s disputes.

AAQ – YYA, you have a point, we are always stereotyping here, it is a nature of online anon discussion, thanks for reminding to keep it lower. I am mostly responding to the positions articulated here by posters and sometimes articles with pronouncements. I am obviously aware that not everyone thinks like that – and I welcome when someone says that, like you sometimes do! I do think that info we are getting reflects some of the reality.

I try. No one is perfect, as an individual or as a group, but the reality is that a lot of really good stuff is going on here, but news is all about “man bit dog” and clickbait. You do see here about one article about a Chessed organization for every 200 articles about politics and hafganot.

AAQ – Thanks for listing various organizations. So, back to the army topic – why not bring some of the army-related activity into negotiations – and into public statements.

Actually, various forms of “national service” were suggested at different points in the draft saga over the years. Sometimes tacit deals were put together, but always the Supreme Court and Company disqualified them.

YYA> Mizrachi .. They had their reasons for not fighting, and some of them reverberate down to today’s disputes.

My understanding was that Mizrachi tried to influence from within the coalition, but in certain times tried “fighting” by quitting. Both are called “fighting” in my book.

> Actually, various forms of “national service” were suggested at different points in the draft saga over the years. Sometimes tacit deals were put together,

I am seeing letters signed by Rabbonim that talk exclusively about opposing something. Is it that there is other activity behind the scenes? Possibly. But the fact that gedolim are not able to speak publicly about any such activity speaks about where the community is holding.

There are now announcements for a world-wide day of protests. I challenge you and others to offer something conciliatory at these protests. If you can’t say brocha for the chayalim, maybe start by saying tehilim but mention that these tehilim are for chayalim/shevuyim/etc